New War In Israel / Gaza

[Israfil]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Honestly too many conjunctions here, so many 'ands', where a full stop or comma would have been better. Also the word 'people' and the rest of that part of the sentence felt strange, would've been better if it's another sentence. Please be mindful of your spelling and grammar here. Are you under the influence of drugs or alcohol writing this post?

 

Why did you obsess over his poor grammar? Isn't the bias more outrageous?

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I would advise you to leave this this thread. Let this thread become an incestuous echo chamber of lies and deceit. Maybe it will become so toxic people will go full circle and gather their senses. These people have no idea they are being played just as the Palestinians are being played as disposables by Iran. 

👍👍👍🔥🎯

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

👍👍👍🔥🎯

   Thumbs up, thumbs up, thumbs up, fire and target. These emojis are incoherent unfortunately.

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

10 minutes ago, Israfil said:

Why did you obsess over his poor grammar? Isn't the bias more outrageous?

   I agree the bias and preferential view he has for his ideological beliefs borders onto outrageous for this worldly situation for the Israel/Palestine conflict. Outside context, part of my bias is linguistics, correct usage of spelling and grammar, sometimes I can get pedantic as I do value details and linearity, so I do get a bit triggered with poor spelling and grammar.

   For example, what do these emojis mean together, and why arrange these emojis in this order: 👍👍👍🔥🎯

Edited January 5 by Danioover9000

[zazen]

President Jimmy Carter

 

[Karmadhi]

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-destruction-of-gaza-surpasses-that-of-mariupol-ww2-germany-16341083

Israel is making Putin's Russia actions in Ukraine look like angels.

An impressive feat.

Nice job Israel, becoming the new enemy of humanity for 2024 after dethroning Russia.

Edited January 5 by Karmadhi

[Merkabah Star]

11 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I would advise you to leave this this thread. Let this thread become an incestuous echo chamber of lies and deceit. Maybe it will become so toxic people will go full circle and gather their senses. These people have no idea they are being played just as the Palestinians are being played as disposables by Iran. 

Blessings and love to you.

thanks for your input, even though most people disagree with you, you at least stated your truth which is all any of us can do on a topic like this. No doubt if all of us lived in Israel for a year we would have slightly different opinions than stated here. 

As we all know, all we are is consciousness. This situation is duality at its best. Both sides aren’t totally right. Just like I would have sided with the Jews, Romas, gays and disabled as they were erased in nazi Germany, I will side with the Palestinian civilians, all the women and children and men who are oppressed and are being disposed of as trash. 

Long live love!

[Merkabah Star]

 

[Karmadhi]

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-179791/

By far the most barbaric first world country in the world.

[kenway]

@Nivsch

It was unfair of me to call you out specifically, and for that I apologise. 

 

[Yimpa]

42 minutes ago, kenway said:

@Nivsch

It was unfair of me to call you out specifically, and for that I apologise

Apology accepted

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-179791/

By far the most barbaric first world country in the world.

The least barbaric middle eastern country. 

[Nivsch]

[zazen]

An advert in Haaretz newspaper on September 22, 1967 from the socialist organisation at the time known as Matzpen:

"This Zionism of conquest (as opposed to coexistence) is suicidal for Israel and for the West that supports it. The real security of a state is when it gets along well with all its neighbours. However, such a strategy of forced expulsion of the descendants of the inhabitants who lived for centuries in Ottoman Palestine has very little chance of ever being accepted by Israel's neighbours, near or far. This is the perfect recipe for eternal war. Even the United States might one day grow tired of the arrogance of an Israeli right that denies Palestinians the very fact of being a nation. The prolongation of this war is also suicidal for the West. Because it hands over on a silver platter to Vladimir Putin a double gift he dared not dream of: the daily proof of the double standards in Western moral lessons." - Renaud Girard 

Interesting speech at Oxford union 8 years ago:

 

Edited January 6 by zazen

[Bobby_2021]

Unpopular opinion: USA is fairly consistent in their objectives whether be it in Israel or Russia.

If I have to pick a side I will definitely stick with US regardless of anything else. This is not something that I am rooting for but this is the lesser of the two(or more) evils.

If hamas(ISIS) is allowed to exist, it will create far more misery and death than what Israel is doing right now. I hate to use the word "collateral damage" so you might recontextualize it as upfront damage. Destruction right now for a peaceful future.

Someone has to liberate the middleast from the eternal warfare. And that can be done by a superior force only. 

Hamas is not the correct wording either. Just call them ISIS because it looks the same and talks the same and does things the same. 

Edited January 6 by Bobby_2021

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Unpopular opinion: USA is fairly consistent in their objectives whether be it in Israel or Russia.

If I have to pick a side I will definitely stick with US regardless of anything else. This is not something that I am rooting for but this is the lesser of the two(or more) evils.

If hamas(ISIS) is allowed to exist, it will create far more misery and death than what Israel is doing right now. I hate to use the word "collateral damage" so you might recontextualize it as upfront damage. Destruction right now for a peaceful future.

Someone has to liberate the middleast from the eternal warfare. And that can be done by a superior force only. 

Hamas is not the correct wording either. Just call them ISIS because it looks the same and talks the same and does things the same. 

1. if Hamas is ISIS why did ISIS just bomb Iran, Hamas’s biggest ally?

2. How many countries has Hamas bombed compared to how many countries has Israel bombed? Does this give the appearance Hamas is the one that’s a threat to world peace?

3. The US had the strongest military in the world and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, did they liberate them from war by causing more war? What gives a foreign country the right to “liberate” the Middle East?

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Someone has to liberate the middleast from the eternal warfare. And that can be done by a superior force only. 

Hamas is not the correct wording either. Just call them ISIS because it looks the same and talks the same and does things the same. 

Maybe a important nuance and difference between ISIS and Hamas is that ISIS's aspirations are globalist and expansionist to all lands whilst Hamas's are localist and defensively resistant against occupation of their homeland. ISIS and Nazi's are thrown in to label and link Hamas to toxic expansionist genocidal ideologies and unjust causes the world came together to fight. The former are globalist death cults whilst the latter a localised defensive resistance movement that yes - do employ terrorist tactics that should be persecuted equally as any other group.

Nazis wanted to universally exterminate Jews from the planet and imperially dominate a entire continent and beyond. Hamas's territorial aspirations are isolated and limited to their land and in defence of it - not expansionist oriented which infringes on other peoples rights or lands. There’s a reason the world came together to defeat the Nazi’s or ISIS but in this situation the world votes against and condemns the war wishing to de-escalate - except very few. The fact that Israel is backed by a global power, has one of the most advanced militaries in the region and possibly nuclear yet still insists it needs to establish deterrence capacity as if what it already has isn’t enough - yet it still gets resisted against and attacked should tell that force doesn’t work unless it totally subjugates, cleanses or genocides the other side which risks it losing its last remaining major ally being the US.

Has US liberating the Middle East worked?  Attempting to bomb ‘terrorism’ out of existence doesn’t always work and what we think is in our best interest (defence via war) isn’t. When Germany and Britain were bombing each other both populations came together for more resilience and resistance against the other side. As can be seen by the increased popularity in polls for Hamas today and what in Britain was known as the ‘Blitz spirit’ - a term to symbolise their resolve, resilience and national unity in the face of hardship caused by the Nazi’s blitz bombing campaign. If Israel say they don’t want a Palestinian state it’s ironic that bombing them only nationalises them further.

One can say ‘but look, the Nazi’s were defeated and there is peace now’ sure - but at what expense and what level of international acceptance at the time. Post WW2 institutions and foundational documents were created (UN, Geneva convention and universal declaration of human rights) to promote peace and equality, protect and sanctify life and persecute and prevent further war crimes and atrocities. The standard of what is acceptable has shifted. Which is why any explicit genocide or ethnic cleansing campaign has to be discreet, subtle and slowly go under the radar of the world - it has to be a process not a event.

Resistance movements are built on the blood of martyrs which Israel ensures a continual supply of. Their called grassroot movements for a reason - you can't get rid of them unless you poison the soil ie genocide, expulsion or brutal subjugation. Resistance will never stop unless the soil is destroyed because its the soil (people) that keeps the grass (resistance) growing. 

If Israel or any countries safety requires the occupation, imprisonment and oppression of a people, they don't have safety and never will. Everything they obtain through oppression is inherently violent and must be upheld through violence - that violence will be justified through ideas of superiority and the idea that those you oppress must be more violent and oppressive than you. 

Edited January 6 by zazen

[Bobby_2021]

37 minutes ago, Raze said:

1. if Hamas is ISIS why did ISIS just bomb Iran, Hamas’s biggest ally?

These are unstable terrorist organisation which eventually do terrorism among themselves. Who would have thought. These are terrorists. That's what they do.

And of course, ingroup fighting is the norm all ideological ideological groups. You fight among your family more than a stranger. In group fighting is a feature. You should not sweat trying to call them names. They are islamic terrorists. Terrorists don't discriminate on who they bomb. They are flimsy and turn on each other every other day. They are terrorists. 

37 minutes ago, Raze said:

How many countries has Hamas bombed compared to how many countries has Israel bombed? Does this give the appearance Hamas is the one that’s a threat to world peace?

The correct question to ask is, how many countries has *Islamic Terrorists* bombed. Oct 7 is not an isolated event but the continuation of the rampant terrorism by, you know who.

If they look like ISIS, talks like ISIS and bombs like ISIS, it's probably ISIS. "Hamas"  is a minor division of the same branch which is fundamentally motivated by the same ideology. There isn't much difference in their motivations.

Not to mention what they would do if they had the powers of Israel. They would use all that power to spread even more terrorisms in the world. That's why they must be picked out young before they get more power.

Say no to terrorism. It's not that hard.

37 minutes ago, Raze said:

The US had the strongest military in the world and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, did they liberate them from war by causing more war? What gives a foreign country the right to “liberate” the Middle East?

The invasion of Iraq was a response to what exactly? Terrorism. Liberating the middleast is just political rhetoric. It was just a knee jerk response to flying planes into world trade centre.

If the government did not act and did something, they would look stupid. 

That's the problem with terrorism. 

When you do terrorism to me then that invokes terrorist instincts in me as well. It's hurt people that then goes to hurt others and that's why it's the most important to end terrorism as soon as possible with the least damage and destruction as possible. 

What US did back then was a mistake.

What Israel is doing now is also bad.

That's the whole problem with terrorism. 

But it had to be done for the greater good. Again, it's not like I am supporting Israel blindly like I did in the beginning. I have a better understanding of the situation and emphathy for both side. 

If Gaza was capable of governing themselves, they should have eliminated these terrorists already. But now Israel has to do it for them.

Look at the long term benefits of such a thing. I hope they do wipe out Islamic Terrorists from the map. Terrorists should not act surprised when they get returned their favour. What did you expect? 

Edited January 6 by Bobby_2021

[Raze]

56 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

These are unstable terrorist organisation which eventually do terrorism among themselves. Who would have thought. These are terrorists. That's what they do.

And of course, ingroup fighting is the norm all ideological ideological groups. You fight among your family more than a stranger. In group fighting is a feature. You should not sweat trying to call them names. They are islamic terrorists. Terrorists don't discriminate on who they bomb. They are flimsy and turn on each other every other day. They are terrorists. 

The correct question to ask is, how many countries has *Islamic Terrorists* bombed. Oct 7 is not an isolated event but the continuation of the rampant terrorism by, you know who.

If they look like ISIS, talks like ISIS and bombs like ISIS, it's probably ISIS. "Hamas"  is a minor division of the same branch which is fundamentally motivated by the same ideology. There isn't much difference in their motivations.

Not to mention what they would do if they had the powers of Israel. They would use all that power to spread even more terrorisms in the world. That's why they must be picked out young before they get more power.

Say no to terrorism. It's not that hard.

The invasion of Iraq was a response to what exactly? Terrorism. Liberating the middleast is just political rhetoric. It was just a knee jerk response to flying planes into world trade centre.

If the government did not act and did something, they would look stupid. 

That's the problem with terrorism. 

When you do terrorism to me then that invokes terrorist instincts in me as well. It's hurt people that then goes to hurt others and that's why it's the most important to end terrorism as soon as possible with the least damage and destruction as possible. 

What US did back then was a mistake.

What Israel is doing now is also bad.

That's the whole problem with terrorism. 

But it had to be done for the greater good. Again, it's not like I am supporting Israel blindly like I did in the beginning. I have a better understanding of the situation and emphathy for both side. 

If Gaza was capable of governing themselves, they should have eliminated these terrorists already. But now Israel has to do it for them.

Look at the long term benefits of such a thing. I hope they do wipe out Islamic Terrorists from the map. Terrorists should not act surprised when they get returned their favour. What did you expect? 

1. If terrorism is defined by bombing indiscriminately, by your own metric Israel is a greater terrorist state as its ratio of civilians to combatants killed is much worse than Hamas 

2. what you are saying makes no sense, why would Hamas attack Iran when it is supplied by Iran. Present your evidence that Hamas and Isis are the same, just saying they both have extremist Islamic beliefs is not proof. If you actually studied their ideology you’d realize how ridiculous it is to say they are the same. Hamas has never attacked outside of historic Palestine. Isis has beliefs like wanting to bomb the Kaaba which Hamas considers sacred. It’s just a silly propaganda claim. They have different leaders, different funding, different goals, and there is 0 evidence of any collaboration between them. ISIS declared war on Iran and Hamas wouldn’t survive without Iran. Would you say USA = Australia, because they are both secular republics? And if someone wants to destroy one they should automatically try to destroy the other because it’s the same?That would actually make more sense since at least those two collaborate and are stated allies.

3. What terrorism did Iraq do to the US that justified attacking them?

4. Israel at one point funded Hamas purposefully to divide the Palestinians, so by your logic Israel funded terrorists. 

Edited January 6 by Raze

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

1. If terrorism is defined by bombing indiscriminately, by your own metric Israel is a greater terrorist state as its ratio of civilians to combatants killed is much worse than Hamas 

That's not how this works. Israel not only has to right to defend itself in the present, but also to protect itself from any future attacks from these radical groups. Who knows what they are going to pull up in the future. 

If you bomb my house, then I will immediately regress to stage red when I used to be stage yellow thinker my whole life prior and I would have to resort to barbaric measures to ensure my safety. The modern free world not built on inclusivity, but radical intolerance to a few things. One of them being terrorism. The only way to confront terror is with even more terror. How else do you think you establish peace? The superior altruistic entity has to use terror if the circumstance demands it.

You have no idea what these people would do if they are allowed to grow unchecked. Do you know what would happen if Iran developed nuclear weapons, and Hamas gets hold of it somehow? Would they think twice of anything like we do? All these are dreaded possibilities that terrorism makes possible.

If someone slaps you, then you would also regress to a lower stage to cope with the situation. This applies to countries as well. This is standard spiral dynamics. It is easy to criticize Israel from your cozy room. In reality, you would behave exactly the same if you are viscously assaulted. You will do anything to stop them from assaulting you further. That is what Israel is doing. Your reptilian brain will make the decisions once you are assaulted. 

The reptilian mind knows only even more terror. So it is a damn good idea to not poke the reptilian hive mind, especially if it's the strongest hyper efficient force in the world.

I do hope we they wipe out from the map. Even letting 5% of them survive will be a mistake. 100% of them should be exterminated and their tunnels flooded or destroyed with bombs.

I do not support bombing children, which would not have happened if Islamic militants choose not to bomb Israel on oct 7.

-------

Do not be fooled by rhetorical words like Hamas, Israel, Gaza. IDF. You are going to get trapped with ideology if you think like that. 

Think in terms of Spiral Dynamics, Terrorism, Safety and even Occupation. No side is clean and there is plenty of collateral damage, which is also because terrorists use innocent children as shields.

1 hour ago, Raze said:

2. what you are saying makes no sense, why would Hamas attack Iran when it is supplied by Iran. Present your evidence that Hamas and Isis are the same, just saying they both have extremist Islamic beliefs is not proof. If you actually studied their ideology you’d realize how ridiculous it is to say they are the same. Hamas has never attacked outside of historic Palestine. Isis has beliefs like wanting to bomb the Kaaba which Hamas considers sacred. It’s just a silly propaganda claim. They have different leaders, different funding, different goals, and there is 0 evidence of any collaboration between them. ISIS declared war on Iran and Hamas wouldn’t survive without Iran. Would you say USA = Australia, because they are both secular republics? And if someone wants to destroy one they should automatically try to destroy the other because it’s the same?That would actually make more sense since at least those two collaborate and are stated allies.

I am under no obligation to make sense of the sub ideologies which consists of infighting, backstabbing, treachery. They do not think in reasonable terms. They are terrorists for God's sake. Being a terrorist makes no sense either. You expect them to act in reasonable terms when it is a bunch of deranged individuals and ego games with a grand common agenda/ideology. 

You are pointing out minor differences between them. In other words, you are missing the content for the structure.

USA and Australia are pretty similar in terms of ideology, beliefs, standard of living etc. They are functionally the same and they look the same. You want me to call them different because it is summer in December. Australia, UK, US, NZ, Canada are all tightly coupled countries which could happen because they are fundamentally the same in ideology and even governance. You can always minor differences that don't really matter.

------

1 hour ago, Raze said:

3. What terrorism did Iraq do to the US that justified attacking them?

The reptilian response to terrorism is not going to be justifiable or reasonable. Maybe you will bomb surrounding countries too which might have done nothing. You can only say that in retrospect. Most people in US supported the Iraq invasion at the time. This not their well-meaning sane brain thinking.  It is a collective knee jerk reaction of the hive mind, which is very real with real consequences for those dumb enough to poke them.

For their credit, they did accomplish their object by taking out Osama even though they had to bear huge collateral damage. Terrorism itself is unreasonable and make the victims of it unreasonable things as well. So yeah it is not justifiable. 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

4. Israel at one point funded Hamas purposefully to divide the Palestinians, so by your logic Israel funded terrorists.

Do you think I support Israel in this lol? i do not. They funded terrorists and they paid their price for it. Do not even associate with terrorists because nothing good will ever come from them. They should take their lessons and not fund terrorists. I do not get why people want to fund terrorism. How is this not dead obvious that it will come to bite you back in the ass?

Just look at how pathetic Pakistan have become by funding terrorists. Now no one even wants to invest in Pakistan because of terrorism. They could only go downward from here. Heck even US funded and keeps funding Pakistan despite India warning them not to. So yeah even the US funded terrorists.

 

Edited January 6 by Bobby_2021