Posted January 2 @hundreth 14 minutes ago, hundreth said: It's generally a no win situation for Israel, whose aid money is stolen and turned back into attacks against them. I believe if Israel could fund the Palestinians into a peaceful and prosperous state, they would. Especially with Hamas in place, this isn't possible. Right now no one should be sending them money, all it does is fund Hamas. There's a path forward, but will involve the international community having feet on the ground. Even if the world sent billions of dollars, it wouldn't solve a thing. There needs to be a direct intervention here. Cool, don't send them money, fine. Send them what instead? Aid? Labor equipment? Extra cement? Team of experts to rebuild their damaged properties, assuming Israeli settlers don't get their first? And again, who's going to pick up the pieces Israel has destroyed in Gaza, or in the West Bank? The ruling Zionists and Israel? Palestine itself, even though as a nation it lacked sufficient social infrastructure before this conflict, and especially after and during the bombings by IDF onto buildings? Should other countries like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Turkey, Iran, should they instead be responsible for picking the pieces in Gaza? And which group will be responsible for Palestinians migrating away from this conflict? Will it be America, after all best buddies of Israel due to the enormous influential arm by A.P.A.C, a Israel lobby group in the USA? Who will cover the damages? Who gets to decide who or what group covers the damages? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 (edited) Is any aid in the world will help them if a brainwasher cult will keep controlling them? The only real aid is to change the authority there to something really different that is not hamas nor PLO in its current form. Without this, every thing else will be a jock, and nothing will improve. Edited January 2 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 @Nivsch Firstly, this post has a lot of bad faith framing: 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Is any aid in the world will help them if a brainwasher cult will keep controlling them? The only real aid is to change the authority there to something really different that is not hamas nor PLO in its current form. Without this, every thing else will be a jock, and nothing will improve. Is 'any' (generalization) aid in the world *will(would) help them if a 'brainwashing cult'(Your interjection, nobody here every said, nor I have stated HAMAs or Hezbollah as a brainwashing cult, you did) will keep controlling them(assuming HAMAs or Hezbollah will forever remain in control of Palestine or the PLO) The 'only'(interjecting an absolute condition here as the only one way) real aid is to change the authority there to something really different that is not HAMAs(I'd agree here specifically) nor PLO in it's current form(the PLO that is constrained by Israel for decades?) Without this(another absolute claim to bolster the previous absolute claim), every thing else(generalizing) will be a *jock(joke, but I'm not laughing, don't find this post funny with it's typos), and nothing will improve(another absolute assumption, again who's saying this other than you? Not me, nor anyone else in this thread but YOU). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 (edited) US spokesperson attempting some accountability and de-escalation: The response: US did say to lower the intensity of the war by new year. IDF partially pulling out of Gaza now - maybe to be redeployed in the north after the Hamas leader drone attack in Beirut? Quite a escalation to pull Hezbollah and US into the war. Edited January 2 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said: @hundreth Cool, don't send them money, fine. Send them what instead? Aid? Labor equipment? Extra cement? Team of experts to rebuild their damaged properties, assuming Israeli settlers don't get their first? And again, who's going to pick up the pieces Israel has destroyed in Gaza, or in the West Bank? The ruling Zionists and Israel? Palestine itself, even though as a nation it lacked sufficient social infrastructure before this conflict, and especially after and during the bombings by IDF onto buildings? Should other countries like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Turkey, Iran, should they instead be responsible for picking the pieces in Gaza? And which group will be responsible for Palestinians migrating away from this conflict? Will it be America, after all best buddies of Israel due to the enormous influential arm by A.P.A.C, a Israel lobby group in the USA? Who will cover the damages? Who gets to decide who or what group covers the damages? I proposed a step forward, which you ignored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) @Danioover9000 As long as you deny that hamas is a brainwashing cult i really feel I don't know what else I can respond about the other parts of the message or to comment at all. Edited January 3 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) 4 hours ago, zazen said: US did say to lower the intensity of the war by new year. IDF partially pulling out of Gaza now - maybe to be redeployed in the north after the Hamas leader drone attack in Beirut? Quite a escalation to pull Hezbollah and US into the war. The commander who was eliminated today was from what I heard the big brain behind all the terror initiations of hamas in the west bank. Quite important and significant I think. Stage three of the war with less soldiers and more concentrated operations against hamas will take at least one year and no south africa nor anything will prevent that from happening. Edited January 3 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: The commander who was eliminated today was from what I heard the big brain behind all the terror initiations of hamas in the west bank. Quite important and significant I think. Stage three of the war with less soldiers and more concentrated operations against hamas will take at least one year and no south africa nor anything will prevent that from happening Interesting how today it was a calculated precise strike with minimum casualties since it is Lebanon and they want to avoid a war there. Why didnt they use a 2000 paund bomb to destroy the entire district like they do to take out Hamas guys in Gaza and killing tens of civilians per strike? It seems like precision strikes work with minimum colleteral damage. More proof that they intentionally want to mass kill civilians with each strike they do against Hamas instead of using precision drones like they did against the guy in Lebanon today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) @Karmadhi Because today the operation was based on a very accurate indications about a specific person's location. But when you have to destroy fortifications hamas built all over Gaza using entire neighborhoods to, what else can you do? I still can't see another realistic way. Edited January 3 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 Wow you still have this thread. Seriously you are really obsessed, move on. @Nivsch & @Vrubel why are you wasting your breath, at this point its just back and forth conversation, you will not convince them, they are determined against Israel no matter what. Just focus your attention to help Israeli soldiers and the country instead of immersing yourself with this pointless debate. Why are we even arguing for Israel's right to exist, we are here to stay, period, even if all the anti-semites of the world will scream otherwise, thats the best what they can do is scream. If they love so called "Palestinians" let them absorb into their country and create Palestine in their region. Spare us the trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 13 hours ago, Vrubel said: The truth shines upon Israel as the soft winter sun on the handsome faces of the boys and girls of the IDF fighting savages in Gaza. I love how the Israelis here think they are fighting some big war. all they did was bomb the fuck out of the place, and still are, killing women and children and destroying everything in sight before they went in, oh so bravely, to fight on the ground. So brave to fight against the “savages” who have no major weapons, maybe some children will throw rocks at them?. Better bomb and kill 50 people for that, that seems moral and fair. Any idiot can see they are going to push everyone out of Gaza and make it Israel. Next step will be taking over southern Lebanon, in their moral fight for humanity, then they can ship everyone from Gaza to southern Lebanon. Egypt might be paid by the USA to take some. That’s my prediction. Sigh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 On 2/1/2024 at 11:06 AM, Vrubel said: I would advise the people on this thread to be more critical of the sources you share. They are mostly highly selected snippets from purposeful and obvious propaganda channels. That’s rich coming from you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 13 hours ago, Nivsch said: And willing to risk their whole life for that. Israel proves willing to sacrifice itself in this war. There is no need to have troops on the ground. You are bred to fight in war. Why aren’t you fighting for your country? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Merkabah Star said: I love how the Israelis here think they are fighting some big war. all they did was bomb the fuck out of the place, and still are, killing women and children and destroying everything in sight before they went in, oh so bravely, to fight on the ground. So brave to fight against the “savages” who have no major weapons, maybe some children will throw rocks at them?. Better bomb and kill 50 people for that, that seems moral and fair. Any idiot can see they are going to push everyone out of Gaza and make it Israel. Next step will be taking over southern Lebanon, in their moral fight for humanity, then they can ship everyone from Gaza to southern Lebanon. Egypt might be paid by the USA to take some. That’s my prediction. Sigh. I see it in another way, A country that been tortured by a terror organization that traumatized thousands of children in shelters since 2000, murdered hundrets of Israelis in suicide bombing when their fellows refused any peace suggestion you can think of, causing Israel to do countless operations when hiding, using and disguising to civilians making the world put the pressure on the wrong side drawing Israel as an opressor when it doesn't deserve this, and in the end kills, rape, butches and kidnapp 1600 Israelis. Thats why Israel has been exploded. The moralizers can get down their mountain and visit here for couple of days or stay quiet. Enough is enough. Israel response might have flaws tactically but absolutely and utterly understandable to me. Edited January 3 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 This was an excellent stream from start to finish. Well worth a listen. It starts with an amusing exchange between Jamal Mohamad and Rabbi Shmuley on an ice rink, then Finkelstein talks about the resignation of Claudine Gay on a more serious interpretation of the same message, then a discussion on Dershowitz and a brief synopsis of the ICJ judges and which way the genocide case might go. 00:00 Intro 02:43 Jamal's encounter with Rabbi Shmuley 11:17 What does 'Free Palestine' mean to Jamal? 13:49 Jamal's experience in Palestine 22:56 Jamal's work with The Arab Student Association 24:22 Seeing through Israeli propaganda 29:27 Congresswoman Elise Stefanik calls for RESIGNATION of Claudine Gay, President of Harvard 43:20 Who should decide who gets to teach? 49:50 Is there a precedent for the firing of Academics who criticize Israel? 54:05 Alan Dershowitz claims there's a double standard when it comes to Black intellectuals and Antisemitism 1:13:23 Norm's debate with Dershowitz 1:14:46 Netanyahu wants Alan Derhsowitz to represent Israel in it's genocide case 1:17:45 Why South Africa is invoking the genocide convention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) @Vrubel is democracy now allowed? Is it too much propaganda for you? Edited January 3 by Merkabah Star Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 I spoke to a man who was in the military for 20 years. Safe to say he is in a much better place now. Not everyone gets out of stressful situations alive, but those that do are forever grateful for a new start at life. I AM a devil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, Nivsch said: @Karmadhi Because today the operation was based on a very accurate indications about a specific person's location. But when you have to destroy fortifications hamas built all over Gaza using entire neighborhoods to, what else can you do? I still can't see another realistic way. It seems like any building can be seen as a fortification of Hamas base if there's a single Hamas member there. Al-shifa was said to have Hamas's command centre for weeks leading up to it and when they got there and destroyed it/caused death they barely found anything while the world waited for footage and proof. In fact Ehud Barak said Israel built a bunker there when they occupied Gaza to which he got backlash because he's not following the script or narrative of what will make Israel look good. The bombs being used are 2'000 lbs which are some of the largest, they explode out parts/shrapnel that damage anything within a large radius and create craters which can be seen in South Gaza in area's where Gazan's were told to go for safety - even refugee camps are being bombed. Israel's leadership and propaganda seems to have brainwashed its own society into thinking its doing the right thing the same way US elites and military interests did to its own society to secure its 'national security' in the Middle East. Maybe Israeli society is also held hostage to this leadership, and Bibi is hostage to his far right base of support including Ben Gvir and Smotrich. Bibi benefits from continuing this war for his political and legal survival. In a sense, the US and the world is hostage to him and the region/world hangs in the balance by how they go about this war to escalate it to something that pulls in bigger plays and destabilises the world. Whenever people share deluded statements from Israeli society the defence is that they are just radical, clowns or extremist and that its not reflective of the population. But what matters is the people in positions of power and leadership. When you have the mayor of Jerusalem denying Christians or functioning churches exist in Gaza or Israeli Ambassador to the UK denying a humanitarian crises exists in Gaza - this is utter denial of reality by people who actually matter - not random people on the street. This is what the world see's. The voluntary migration of Gazans is displayed as humanitarian and moral but coercing someone into doing something and ensuring they’ll die if they don’t do it is the exact opposite of what the word “voluntary” means. Israel's actions have made Gaza uninhabitable and dangerous. Violently creating conditions that endanger their lives to the point that they don't have any choice but to leave isn't voluntary - and statements and intentions shown by Israeli leaders of settling in Gaza make the case for this being a ethnic cleansing campaign pretty obviously. Its said there are 600'000 fighting age men in Gaza. Defeating Hamas would mean defeating the new military recruits Israel's actions will create from this. Including Houthi's who are giving Israel a taste of its own medicine by blockading a sea lane which shipments have to go around Africa for and to which the increased cost of that ends up at the end user of those goods in Israel which is already suffering economically. Then you have Hezbollah who Israel couldn't defeat in 2006 and who are only stronger now. That's Israel's triple threat - Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah - HHH (WWE reference lol). Diplomatically it's already lost the world and US seems to be losing patience also but the narrative is that a military solution to a political problem makes Israel safer and is in its national interest - rather its in the interest of a few only. Edited January 3 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 3 8 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said: Wow you still have this thread. Seriously you are really obsessed, move on. @Nivsch & @Vrubel why are you wasting your breath, at this point its just back and forth conversation, you will not convince them, they are determined against Israel no matter what. Just focus your attention to help Israeli soldiers and the country instead of immersing yourself with this pointless debate. Why are we even arguing for Israel's right to exist, we are here to stay, period, even if all the anti-semites of the world will scream otherwise, thats the best what they can do is scream. If they love so called "Palestinians" let them absorb into their country and create Palestine in their region. Spare us the trouble. Hear you man, I soon will have no choice but to leave this thread due to developments in my personal life and simply not having any time. Most of the people still hanging around this thread are pretty unreasonable and irredeemably biased anyway. You can see the eagerness for denial and jumping to conclusions. All they care about is their own incredibly narrow narrative. This is probably not even their own original and authentic thought and feelings but a pre-packaged propaganda narrative from a loud minority that will lash out at you if you're not part of their hive mind. On the flip side, some people here were reasonable enough and had interesting perspectives. And there was also some enjoyment for me in gathering together my thoughts and expressing myself. And don't worry, I will also definitely come to Israel soon and do some volunteering! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
