New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Ramanujan said:

Israel = Settler colonialist trying to colonize palestine by killing them off and taking their land , just like what europeans did to native americans

An intersting story. When is this being taught? I want to participate in the course  📖🌟🎑🤔

Edited January 2 by Nivsch

[kenway]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You can argue on that but please people here are naive and don't understand that what is right to the western world isn't right in the middle east.

 

8000 dead children.

[kenway]

[Vrubel]

55 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

8000 dead children.

Extremely tragic and very sad.

Let's look at the reasons: 

1. Hamas started a war (important context)
2. The nature of the battle will produce unavoidably collateral. (It's not a Napoleonic-era battle in an open field)
3. IDF can make mistakes
4. Intent matters a lot
5. Half of the Gazan population is children.  
6. Hamas combatants also include teenagers 16+
7. Hamas tactics purposefully endanger civilians 
8. Israel cares more for civilians than Hamas (tragic but undeniable truth)
9. Hamas benefits from dead children, Israel does not. (see point 4.)

As harsh as it sounds the Hamas attack has literally put Gaza at the mercy of Israel. It was a genocide begging attack and anything less they get is because of the mercy and grace of Israel. 

Btw Israel doesn't even boycott South Africa's genocide case because they don't fear the lies and deceit.

Edited January 2 by Vrubel

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

9 hours ago, Raze said:

 

   I'd love to see how the hoe Destiny would handle any discourse with Norm Finklestein or even gape, given how pro Israel he's been lately.

[kenway]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

1. Hamas started a war (important context)

Predicated on the narrative of the Oct 7 attacks seen through the lens of Israel propaganda. It could be refined: Hamas attacked Israel and Israel chose war. Or Hamas attacked Israel and Israel attacked back. Or better yet, Hamas attacked Israel and Israel responded with disproportionate force that in the eyes of increasingly large factions of the international community constitutes genocide.

Absent an objective analysis, this isn't even getting into the nuanced details of the attacks themselves. If you want to play the subjective game we could just as easily refer to General Flynn's assessment that Israel deliberately stood down for 7 hours and let the attacks take place, which if true would mean that not only did Israel know of the attacks in advance, but consciously let them develop which also reflects the statements of a number of ex-IDF personnel made at the time. Add to that a clusterfuck where IDF tanks and helicopters have been killing Israeli citizens themselves, you soon have a spaghetti sandwich of he said she said.

 

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

2. The nature of the battle will produce unavoidably collateral. (It's not a Napoleonic-era battle in an open field)

Doesn't matter. If you have a civilian to combatant ratio in the region of 60-80% and are engaged in indiscriminate bombings of civilian infrastructure, not least hospitals, schools and refugee camps then you are violating all manner of internationally recognised conventions that are designed to protect civilians. It doesn't matter how many subjective excuses you can cook up, it's the nature of our shared international legal framework.

Do you know what 8000 dead children look like?

 

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

4. Intent matters a lot

Which is precisely why South Africa have referred Israel to the ICJ on the charge of genocide. There will be due process and the chance to interpret the conventions in respect of intent, but according to them and many others, the intention is clear and obvious ethnic cleansing.

When Israel pulled out in 2005, it was obvious to many that Israel's next step would be "to carpet bomb the entire area". Okay fine, it took 18-19 years, but job done ammirite? Everyone knows about the demographic problem that undermines Israel's existence as a Jewish state. Plus, Ex-British Prime Minister recently was tasked with arrangements for "voluntary evacuation" of Gaza's residents. There's nothing voluntary about the evacuation of 1.5 million Gaza residents who are now literally homeless.

And this isn't even getting into the scores of Palestinians killed in the West Banks during the same period. 

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

It was a genocide begging attack and anything less they get is because of the mercy and grace of Israel. 

To be frank, sentences like this make you sound like a crazy person. But if that's your truth, then so be it.

It is obvious that Israel is on the wrong side of history. After civilisation has moved on from this temporary and silly period of "ethnic nationalism" that you hold so dear, it will fall to future historians to retrospectively pick through internet forums such as this to try to work out how it all came crashing down.... and how its protagonists could be so unfathomably blind.

Edited January 2 by kenway

[Danioover9000]

@kenway

10 minutes ago, kenway said:

Predicated on the narrative of the Oct 7 attacks seen through the lens of Israel propaganda. It could be refined: Hamas attacked Israel and Israel chose war. Or Hamas attacked Israel and Israel attacked back. Or better yet, Hamas attacked Israel and Israel responded with disproportionate force that in the eyes of increasingly large factions of the international community constitutes genocide.

Absent an objective analysis, this isn't even getting into the nuanced details of the attacks themselves. If you want to play the subjective game we could just as easily refer to General Flynn's assessment that Israel deliberately stood down for 7 hours and let the attacks take place, which if true would mean that not only did Israel know of the attacks in advance, but consciously let them develop which also reflects the statements of a number of ex-IDF personnel made at the time. Add to that a clusterfuck where IDF tanks and helicopters have been killing Israeli citizens themselves, you soon have a spaghetti sandwich of he said she said.

 

Doesn't matter. If you have a civilian to combatant ratio in the region of 60-80% and are engaged in indiscriminate bombings of civilian infrastructure, not least hospitals, schools and refugee camps then you are violating all manner of internationally recognised conventions that are designed to protect civilians. It doesn't matter how many subjective excuses you can cook up, it's the nature of our shared international legal framework.

Do you know what 8000 dead children look like?

 

Which is precisely why South Africa have referred Israel to the ICJ on the charge of genocide. There will be due process and the chance to interpret the conventions in respect of intent, but according to them and many others, the intention is clear and obvious ethnic cleansing.

When Israel pulled out in 2005, it was obvious to many that Israel's next step would be "to carpet bomb the entire area". Okay fine, it took 18-19 years, but job done ammirite? Everyone knows about the demographic problem that undermines Israel's existence as a Jewish state. Plus, Ex-British Prime Minister recently was tasked with arrangements for "voluntary evacuation" of Gaza's residents. There's nothing voluntary about the evacuation of 1.5 million Gaza residents who are now literally homeless.

And this isn't even getting into the scores of Palestinians killed in the West Banks during the same period. 

To be frank, sentences like this make you sound like a crazy person. But if that's your truth, then so be it.

It is obvious that Israel is on the wrong side of history. After civilisation has moved on from this temporary and silly period of "ethnic nationalism" that you hold so dear, it will fall to future historians to retrospectively pick through internet forums such as this to try to work out how it all came crashing down.... and how its protagonists could be so unfathomably blind.

   To be fair to some users here, I think they just can't imagine a dead child body. I bet most here can't and are not willing to visualize a dead child, so imagining 8,000 dead children is going to be extremely difficult for these people, especially when they're indoctrinated into demonizing and dehumanizing the Palestinians together with the HAMAs group. It's too personal and in-field for them to open their minds to the possibility that they are mind fucked by their state and are wrong in their assumptions. For example it's far easier for them to imagine candles and match sticks and a book and they're always in the moral right, but dead bodies? Nah, that's to disturbing, too strong a thought terminating cliche there. Easier to dehumanize a national identity than to empathize with their decades of suffering.

Edited January 2 by Danioover9000

[BlueOak]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You can argue on that but please people here are naive and don't understand that what is right to the western world isn't right in the middle east.

Yes. If I can make a suggestion, please repeat that often and in different ways. I need to hear it more often to check my own bias.

[Vrubel]

 

44 minutes ago, kenway said:

To be frank, sentences like this make you sound like a crazy person. But if that's your truth, then so be it.

Your whole game is being the pure moral guy. Which is fine, I am sure you're a friendly guy blessed with life in a peaceful part of the world. Your last sentence here is (inadvertently) very wise. Truth and morality have different forms in different contexts. If Jews were just as unhinged and emotional as the Palestinians it would have been a genocide a long time ago. There are forces keeping Israel in check including a higher sense of morality and rationality.
 

59 minutes ago, kenway said:

It is obvious that Israel is on the wrong side of history. After civilisation has moved on from this temporary and silly period of "ethnic nationalism" that you hold so dear, it will fall to future historians to retrospectively pick through internet forums such as this to try to work out how it all came crashing down.... and how its protagonists could be so unfathomably blind.

Israel is literally one of the most diverse countries in the world, a beacon of civilization amongst a sea of failed states and terrorist savages.

Sorry that they are not some futuristic utopia where people don't bother with removing existential threats of pure savagery to their state and citizens. 


 

[Ramanujan]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

An intersting story. When is this being taught? I want to participate in the course  📖🌟🎑🤔

 

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

An intersting story. When is this being taught? I want to participate in the course  📖🌟🎑🤔

 

 

This is the age of internet bro. You all cant hide the truth in this day and age. Truth is out there. Those who are capable will find it. 

[Vrubel]

4 minutes ago, Ramanujan said:

You all cant hide the truth in this day and age. 

The truth shines upon Israel as the soft winter sun on the handsome faces of the boys and girls of the IDF fighting savages in Gaza.  

 

 

 

[Nivsch]

28 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

The truth shines upon Israel as the soft winter sun on the handsome faces of the boys and girls of the IDF fighting savages in Gaza.  

And willing to risk their whole life for that.

Israel proves willing to sacrifice itself in this war.

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

36 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

The truth shines upon Israel as the soft winter sun on the handsome faces of the boys and girls of the IDF fighting savages in Gaza.  

 

 

 

   Cool, just don't forget to tell the sunny handsome IDF or the shining Zionists running Israel to rebuild the damaged buildings, properties and social infrastructures within West Bank and especially Gaza okay? Homeless Palestinians who struggle for fresh water and maybe drinking salt water due to IDF planning to flood the tunnels with seawater are very harsh environmental conditions for the citizens no? Again screw HAMAs, but don't screw the Palestinians yeah?

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 hamas used those buildings as fortifications from them they would collapse our soldiers like domino stones if would not destroyed from the air.

So the responsibility to rebuild them is not on Israel.

Edited January 2 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Ramanujan

7 hours ago, Ramanujan said:

Israel = Settler colonialist trying to colonize palestine by killing them off and taking their land , just like what europeans did to native americans

   To be fair to the European colonization and settlers, there was a lot of good that came from the colonization Era, for example when the Spaniards and conquistadors set foot on south America, and encountered the Aztec empire, key word EMPIRE and not tribe, which practices some forms of cannibalism and human sacrifice of ripping open the chest of defeated tribal warriors while they're alive, the Spanish colonists put a stop to those barbaric practices, and even the native tribes in that region, and no the Spanish there weren't just being brutal but they were diplomatic, but they didn't have to be too diplomatic because the losing tribes in that region offered to make a coalition against the Aztec Empire, and thanks to them over throwing the Aztec empire peace was restored, and no more barbaric practices of cannibalism and human sacrifices were continued. Also, before and during the European colonization GB is the first Empire to have a strong anti slavery policy as an altruistic principle, and they were the first, not the USA or others, to pursue an anti slavery policy.  

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Danioover9000 hamas used those buildings as fortifications from them they would collapse our soldiers like domino stones if would not destroyed.

So the responsibility to rebuild them is not on Israel.

   That's interesting, so who's responsibility is it to rebuild damaged social infrastructures after this Israel/Palestinian conflict? The Gazans, who are far less developed as a nation and state compared to Israel? Lebanon? Egypt? Turkey, who are NATO allies? Syria? the whole of Iran? Maybe Iraq? Maybe every Islam follower around the world? Why not Israel? Why not other Jews outside of Israel and from other countries? Why not the ruling elite rich Zionists? Why would you shift responsibility away from Israel, the ruling Zionists and IDF, who's doing most of the property damage on Gaza hmm? 

   How about the USA being a candidate for rebuilding damaged Gaza buildings and infrastructure, via loaning equipment?

Edited January 2 by Danioover9000

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

The truth shines upon Israel as the soft winter sun on the handsome faces of the boys and girls of the IDF fighting savages in Gaza.  

 

 

 

If settlers set their ass on Gaza I wonder if they’ll be scared of Hamas coming through tunnels to tickle them where the sun don’t shine 🚽 😂

Sun kissed IDF self owning themselves through tik tok. Who knew a Chinese app would undermine Israel’s image on the world stage.

 

Edited January 2 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

1 hour ago, zazen said:

If settlers set their ass on Gaza I wonder if they’ll be scared of Hamas coming through tunnels to tickle them where the sun don’t shine 🚽 😂

Sun kissed IDF self owning themselves through tik tok. Who knew a Chinese app would undermine Israel’s image on the world stage.

 

   Reminds me of this 300 line in the movie:

   Decide for yourselves what the metaphor points to.

[hundreth]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nivsch

   That's interesting, so who's responsibility is it to rebuild damaged social infrastructures after this Israel/Palestinian conflict? The Gazans, who are far less developed as a nation and state compared to Israel? Lebanon? Egypt? Turkey, who are NATO allies? Syria? the whole of Iran? Maybe Iraq? Maybe every Islam follower around the world? Why not Israel? Why not other Jews outside of Israel and from other countries? Why not the ruling elite rich Zionists? Why would you shift responsibility away from Israel, the ruling Zionists and IDF, who's doing most of the property damage on Gaza hmm? 

   How about the USA being a candidate for rebuilding damaged Gaza buildings and infrastructure, via loaning equipment?

It's generally a no win situation for Israel, whose aid money is stolen and turned back into attacks against them. I believe if Israel could fund the Palestinians into a peaceful and prosperous state, they would. Especially with Hamas in place, this isn't possible. 

Right now no one should be sending them money, all it does is fund Hamas. There's a path forward, but will involve the international community having feet on the ground. Even if the world sent billions of dollars, it wouldn't solve a thing. There needs to be a direct intervention here.

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, hundreth said:

It's generally a no win situation for Israel, whose aid money is stolen and turned back into attacks against them. I believe if Israel could fund the Palestinians into a peaceful and prosperous state, they would. Especially with Hamas in place, this isn't possible. 

Right now no one should be sending them money, all it does is fund Hamas. There's a path forward, but will involve the international community having feet on the ground. Even if the world sent billions of dollars, it wouldn't solve a thing. There needs to be a direct intervention here.

+1 🧡