Posted January 1 (edited) On 30/12/2023 at 7:19 PM, Nivsch said: Yes. The Palestinians are the main responsible to their problem and they are the only ones who can release themselves from their situation. 8 hours ago, Nivsch said: @zazen Why they moved to the right? Because of the suicide bombing. Before that, half of the Israelis were highly into the negotiations and peace. So Israelis can blame external factors for moving right or becoming more extreme, but Palestinians can’t? For them it’s an internal issue as you’ve said - a virus, disorder or self tyranny. Some polls: https://en.idi.org.il/articles/51872 Edited January 1 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) Cringe debate between Destiny and Cenk on Israel and Palestine conflict: Cenk here in the long term, morally is on the right, but in argumentation he's inaccurate, plus he's arguing at Destiny who has virtue signaled being pro Israel along with that moderator, he'll never have a good rhetorical win or good optics, especially anyone or most people, even with very reasonable takes and critiques of Israel, if an arguer is seen as too pro Palestinian and especially if it sounds like such a person has HAMAs sympathy, slander and defamation and censorships follow. So Cenk is actually on the unpopular side of this issue, and Destiny, like a motte and Bailey fallacy and position, Destiny is on the high ground with the popular side. I fucking hate popularity contests like these. Just because it's trending or popular doesn't mean it's TRUTH or it's right morally. Just like in Iraq war, Saddam Hussain had nothing to do with 9/11, yet Bush spun it as him being responsible for that, and everyone in America, the majority, went with it, even if there's devastation and carnage for the Iraq people that followed a bad military coup of Saddam's regime, and a bad martial law enforcement of the USA. Edited January 1 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 Just now, Lila9 said: Interview of an Israeli woman who was in captivity by Hamas in Gaza: "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) Without denying this war problems, Gazan children have already been killed psychologically and spiritually long before this war started. Where was the world then? Edited January 1 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 Interesting takes from one of the hostages: My first impressions, some withholding here, but mostly truthful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) @Danioover9000 Yes, Israel so care "only about the war" that agreed to release 1000+ terrorists for only ONE soldier called Gilad Shalit. Absurd 🙂 Edited January 1 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 When you use tactics like this you lose the right to cry about "civilian" casualties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 @Vrubel 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: When you use tactics like this you lose the right to cry about "civilian" casualties. I don't like your accusation tone here, I think nobody here is using g tactics like what HAMAs is doing. In stark contrast the Israeli military have the latest technology in weaponry, and advance scanning systems such that they KNOW EXACTLY WHO THEY'RE TARGETING, so I don't know why this is a flex in your view here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) @Nivsch 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: @Danioover9000 Yes, Israel so care "only about the war" that agreed to release 1000+ terrorists for only ONE soldier called Gilad Shalit. Absurd 🙂 So??? Also, Aren't you supposed to ignore me? Like WTF? Edited January 1 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 I thought we're all in implicit agreement that we'll be talking past each other, and just list some talking points with zero engagement no??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 Here is a pro-Israel video for you, but practical. Do you agree Iran can be broken up as suggested? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 2 hours ago, BlueOak said: Here is a pro-Israel video for you, but practical. Do you agree Iran can be broken up as suggested? Interesting! Never heard about that way. I will see it again tomorrow to understand it better. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) @Danioover9000 Nice shares - added to watch list. Cenk gets way too emotional to reasonably discuss. Anger as an emotion is a friend to the apathetic, but not a friend you bring to the table of peacemaking discussion. A temporary place to visit to get moving but not to stay in and make a home. Same way some of the pro Palestinian side on Piers Morgan don’t want to condemn Hamas publicly - it shuts of the other side being able to take them seriously. They just don’t want to be clip baited - the nuance is that Hamas in their groups are associated with the Palestinian cause and resistance so they feel they could be misrepresented to be against the cause itself. Same way people are for black lives but maybe not the BLM movement which wanted to sneak in other perverse anti-white / anarchist / defund the police memes and ideologies. Good causes are often hijacked by bad actors with bad causes. @Raze Always coming in with the links Edited January 1 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 5 hours ago, BlueOak said: Here is a pro-Israel video for you, but practical. Do you agree Iran can be broken up as suggested? Thank you for the share, very interesting. Iranians have indeed been playing a smart sneaky game of surrounding Israel. They basically have been playing the Palestinians as sacrificial pawns and the Lebanese Shiite to do their bidding as an extension of the revolutionary guard. I don't know if Israel can replicate Iran's strategy with disenfranchised Iranian minorities or Persians because they seem to be way better educated and more developed than most Arabs, so a higher consciousness approach would be needed. The tragedy of Iran is that an otherwise educated and wealthy country is being held hostage by a radical ideological section. Also, it's hard to funnel money and arms to opposition groups in such a country. Iran is not Lebanon, Syria or Yemen. All three of them are failed states whose corpses are being possessed and animated by Iran. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 1 (edited) 6 hours ago, BlueOak said: Here is a pro-Israel video for you, but practical. Do you agree Iran can be broken up as suggested? Seeing your posts around I always take away some insight from them. Vrubel makes a good point above. It seems Houthi’s shouldn’t be underestimated and neither should Western power projection be overestimated. From a article : The reality of modern warfare is that small nations and non-state actors such as the Houthis can be armed with modern military weaponry which negates the military impact of multibillion-dollar investments such as the carrier battlegroup. It costs the Houthis tens of thousands of dollars to fire its drones and missiles against Israel and maritime shipping; it costs the US Navy millions of dollars to shoot them down. Moreover, it costs the US navy hundreds of millions of dollars just to keep a carrier battle group deployed and operating, while the Houthis can credibly threaten to sink a carrier using weapons that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The final score card regarding Operation Prosperity Guardian has yet to be written. But the reality is that it will most likely not succeed in its mission of preventing Houthi attacks against either Israel or maritime shipping. This failure goes far beyond the issue of security for the Red Sea. The United States has long maintained that it could guarantee that if Iran ever sought to close the strategic Straight of Hormuz, the US Navy would be able to reopen it in a very short period. Operation Prosperity Guardian puts a lie to that claim. The fact is, the world balance of power has changed dramatically, and legacy systems like the carrier battlegroup are no longer the dominant means of power projection they once were. The US has, in effect, put all its eggs in one basket through its over-reliance upon the carrier battlegroup when it comes to force projection. The looming failure of Operation Prosperity Guardian exposes the impotence of the US when it comes to being able to accomplish its plans for regional dominance in the Persian Gulf, South Pacific, and Taiwan, and signals a new era where the appearance of an American fleet of the shores of a far way land no longer inspires fear and intimidation. For a nation like the United States, which has premised so much of its foreign and national security on the notion of strength-based deterrence, the revelation that its military power projection capabilities are more bark than bite undermines its credibility as an ally and partner in a world largely defined by conflicts created by, or on behalf of, the United States. Edited January 1 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 (edited) I would advise the people on this thread to be more critical of the sources you share. They are mostly highly selected snippets from purposeful and obvious propaganda channels. As pro-Israel as I am, I still can see when propaganda skews the truth and is too eager to jump to conclusions from both sides. For example, I don't like the title of the Iran video. Quickly jumping to a conclusion that fits your agenda is a sign of a mushy mind that cannot be taken seriously or at least with a huge grain of salt. Edited January 2 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 (edited) 9 hours ago, Vrubel said: I would advise the people on this thread to be more critical of the sources you share. They are mostly highly selected snippets from purposeful and obvious propaganda channels. As pro-Israel as I am, I still can see when propaganda skews the truth and is too eager to jump to conclusions from both sides. For example, I don't like the title of the Iran video. Quickly jumping to a conclusion that fits your agenda is a sign of a mushy mind that cannot be taken seriously or at least with a huge grain of salt. Yes this is brainwashing. Every 6 hours to just flood the thread with links to the most extreme cases and out of thousands mostly right and that have a reason for. I have read an article about a commander who say from his experience that hamas has its footprint in almost every house in Gaza. You can argue on that but please people here are naive and don't understand that what is right to the western world isn't right in the middle east. Edited January 2 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 2 Israel = Settler colonialist trying to colonize palestine by killing them off and taking their land , just like what europeans did to native americans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
