New War In Israel / Gaza

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

1. "Reasonable reason to believe..." wow. What a proof.

2. "Causing physcial and mental harm". Yes. This is war.

3. "Causing force evacuation and diaplacement." Yes. Whem hamas stick itself to them in super glue.

4. "Failing to provide shelter and medical needs". So now Israel is responisble to 2 millions people's health care too?

5. "Destroying palestinians life in Gaza" what a scientific claim. Yes people life are being destroyed on both sides. Including tens of thousands of young Israeli guys in their 20s and 30s who are now sacrifice their life in the almost or even most dangerous war zone in the world.

6. The only country who is never allowed to win a war, even in far better conditions - Israel.

 

You're playing a very dangerous and stupid game. If successfully prosecuted then you would be effectively defending war crimes, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

It's funny - because I kind of suspected that me posting isolated snippets of the application would result in this response, so I recommend you read more of the actual document itself.

[kenway]

Relevant:-

As a historian who has researched and studied genocide in places like Indonesia and Timor Leste, I am deeply aware of the difficulties of determining when it seems clear that genocidal violence is unfolding. The Israeli annihilation of Gaza clearly meets that threshold.

In most genocides there is an information vacuum, and details trickle out because of the difficulties of reporting in real time and placing events in context. Even in well publicized genocides - Rwanda, Bosnia - reporters and diplomats were behind the curve in grasping events.

In East Timor and Indonesia, which I have studied well, a handful of voices characterized what was happening at the time as genocide (or politicide), but it took months or years before the international or scholarly community would generally acknowledge this.

The Israeli annihilation of Gaza may be the first episode in history of genocide unfolding in real time, in full view of the world, with the perpetrators proudly announcing their intentions every day, and other governments proudly trumpeting their participation.

The South African petition to the international criminal court will expose the total bankruptcy of international law, since the most powerful country in the history of the world is an open accomplice and has already announced that the perpetrators will get away with it.

~ Bradley Simpson
https://twitter.com/bradleyrsimpson/status/1741290160677867885

[Nivsch]

@kenway You are DECIDING that i am doing x or y because it fits you agenda.

No.

What I am doing is just what I wrote and for the raw words I wrote only for them I am responsible. 

The way you are interpreting my words is a totally different story.

But if you want to play the game of interpretations, then I feel behind your words that you are highly uncomfortable with my claims.

Maybe because it treaten your agenda to hear that 10,000s of Israeli young guys are also put their life on a stake right now fighting agaisnt hamas in thd horror land of traps and explosive charges all over and for two months now.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@kenway You are DECIDING that i am doing x or y because it fits you agenda.

No.

What I am doing is just what I wrote and for the raw words I wrote only for them I am responsible. 

The way you are interpreting my words is a totally different story.

But if you want to play the game of interpretations, then I feel behind your words that you are highly uncomfortable with my claims.

Maybe because it treaten your agenda to hear that 10,000s of Israeli young guys are also put their life on a stake right now and for months now.

 

Firstly, my only agenda is nothing other than basic empathy. It's not complicated.

Secondly, I'm not DECIDING anything in relation to your x y z thoughts in contrast to basic empathy. You DECIDED to respond to my post, which specifically relates to an 84 page application to the ICJ from an entire country - specifically South Africa.

I am not uncomfortable with any of your claims because what you are saying is 1) totally biased, 2) totally ridiculous and 3) totally in conflict with the overwhelming population of the planet, not least the representatives of the United Nations, who are consistently vetoed by agents that don't represent the spirit of ordinary people.

And in regards to the "10,000 of young Israeli IDF who are risking their lives in order to carry out such warcrimes", my advice is to simply stop doing that.

There are plenty of avenues for conscientious objection in Israel - there's an entire film dedicated to it.

[Vrubel]

3 minutes ago, kenway said:

South Africa

An insanely corrupt and dysfunctional country 

[Nivsch]

@kenway The discussion here is much more biased than I am.

I am at least admit mistakes and not totally demonizing the other side with childish claims based on cherry picking of the top 0.01% most extremist journalists.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

8000 dead children.

60%-80% civilian to combatant ratio.

1.5 million people homeless.

 

You're defending genocide. STOP.

 

 

[Nivsch]

@kenway

1400 people died.

10,000s young guys sacrifice their lives for ~60 days in most dangerous and dense war zone in the world might die at any moment.

240 (now 130) hostages suffering ×100 more than any Gazan, for 86 days with a gun to their head can be executed at any moment.

100,000s displaced people in Israel.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

@kenway It's not a genocide but it is something Hamas begged for on 7/10.

Copy-Paste* Consider that the alternative of Hamas staying in power in Gaza is worse than having this war. As destructive as this war is it will give the Palestinians a chance to obtain a healthy government that does not dehumanize them but looks after their basic needs and interests.   

Edited December 31, 2023 by Vrubel

[kenway]

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

1. This Application concerns acts threatened, adopted, condoned, taken and being taken by the Government and military of the State of Israel against the Palestinian people, a distinct national, racial and ethnical group, in the wake of the attacks in Israel on 7 October 2023. South Africa unequivocally condemns all violations of international law by all parties, including the direct targeting of Israeli civilians and other nationals and hostage-taking by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups. No armed attack on a State’s territory no matter how serious — even an attack involving atrocity crimes — can, however, provide any possible justification for, or defence to, breaches of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (‘Genocide Convention’ or ‘Convention’),1 whether as a matter of law or morality. The acts and omissions by Israel complained of by South Africa are genocidal in character because they are intended to bring about the destruction of a substantial part of the Palestinian national, racial and ethnical group, that being the part of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip (‘Palestinians in Gaza’). The acts in question include killing Palestinians in Gaza, causing them serious bodily and mental harm, and inflicting on them conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. The acts are all attributable to Israel, which has failed to prevent genocide and is committing genocide in manifest violation of the Genocide Convention, and which has also violated and is continuing to violate its other fundamental obligations under the Genocide Convention, including by failing to prevent or punish the direct and public incitement to genocide by senior Israeli officials and others.

@Vrubel

@Nivsch

[zazen]

@Danioover9000 Good shares 👍🏻

13 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen That's why the offers said "with area exchanges" to provide them still the area that is as big as 67' lines just different (then no need to evacuate the settlements) so Gideon Levi doesn't prove anything here.

By the way he is roughly the most radical journalist in Israel. Not sure if his statements are reliable enough. Has to be taken with a grain of salt.

From what I’ve seen the main points the proposals fail on is that they offer less than a state with full sovereignty ie demilitarised, not a fair right of return, remains of some security points within a Palestinian state, limited access to resources like water and now probably Gas off the coast of Gaza. A two state solution seems out of question now unless strong armed by the international community and the Palestinian side unwilling to concede to anything if there was one - especially after the world protests their cause which to them confirms the validity of their cause.

Also from what Israels done and is currently doing only gives them more of a level of entitlement in any negotiation. A child born in Gaza in 2006 has lived through 4 conflicts in the first 16 years of their life. They clearly feel wronged by the past and in the present which is why they don’t feel they should be the ones conceding.

Israeli societies become more insular and moved to the right that any centrist or leftist take seems radical including Gideon Levy. Israel is moving in a dangerous direction that people feel comfortable enough to speak how they do even on mainstream media without much backlash. Any critique gets labelled anti semitic or a puppet of Hamas/Iran - Israel calls on Guterres from UN to resign for saying October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum for example.

No context is allowed except for the context of Israel existing as it does and doing as it pleases because of the Jewish peoples suffering. Holocaust denial is atrocious, but so is using the memory of the Holocaust and past suffering to justify present day suffering of others.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen Eliyahu yosian 🤣 he is iranian in his origin and known for his bizzare suggestions.

You only link to well known clowns 🛸

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@zazen Why they moved to the right? Because of the suicide bombing.

Before that, half of the Israelis were highly into the negotiations and peace.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   Very informative video, directly and indirectly shows problems with this thread in terms of developmental factors:

 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

directly and indirectly shows problems with this thread in terms of developmental factors

This thread is its own war zone. 

[Karmadhi]

14 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Yes but the Arab started the war because they didn't accept those borders. What proves to us - they are not satisfied even with 48' borders!

The issue is that Israeli current neo nazi government does not want it. That is the real issue

[Danioover9000]

@zazen  Thanks, here are a few more:

   and

   While I'm not surprised he's getting smeared campaign and getting slandered, it's still a sad thing to see him getting censorship like this, getting the John Mearsheimer treatment.

[Danioover9000]

   Good explanation by Thomas Sowell on the history:

 

[kenway]

 

Genius propaganda. But who paid for it?

[Raze]

12 minutes ago, kenway said:

Genius propaganda. But who paid for it?

israel funds a massive influence operation in the U.S. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTksWA1I2UI