Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Raze said: Has hamas ever harmed any Jews outside of historical Palestine? Why did Hamas’s founder say the organization was founded not to fight Jews but to fight occupiers? Would Hamas have been founded and gotten popularity if Israel wasn’t committing so much violence towards Palestinians? Notice how their popularity grew after every military action. Just see what happened during the 1920s and 1930s with Amin El Husseini and Arabs massacres towards the Jews. The same ideology. Before Israel has established. How hamas behave to their own people too. All the inner tyranni between their different groups and within the familiy structure. Tyranni all the way down. Edited December 30, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Raze said: Has hamas ever harmed any Jews outside of historical Palestine? Why did Hamas’s founder say the organization was founded not to fight Jews but to fight occupiers? Would Hamas have been founded and gotten popularity if Israel wasn’t committing so much violence towards Palestinians? Notice how their popularity grew after every military action. This video: Flawed logic and borderline colonial thinking to think because a group on its own can be disorderly, dehumanising and tyrannical amongst themselves that it gives the right of another group to come do the same on top of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, zazen said: Nice one straw-manning a single sentence out of paragraphs written in good faith to dismiss and deflect responding to any other points. Your good faith is noted. But my general point still stands: Your views are generally just too innocent and naive. As again illustrated by your last post. Israel is not some dumb dodo bird that is going to let Hamas off the hook. You guys here try to play a game of diminishing the threat and actions of Hamas and pretend the Palestinians are totally oppressed without agency in some kind of concentration camp and have zero responsibility for their depraved actions. That's why I keep telling you guys to watch 4k walking videos of Palestine. Edited December 30, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Vrubel said: You guys here try to play a game of diminishing the threat and actions of Hamas and pretend the Palestinians are totally oppressed without agency in some kind of concentration camp and have zero responsibility for their depraved actions. That's why I keep telling you guys to watch 4k walking videos of Palestine. Yes. The Palestinians are the main responsible to their problem and they are the only ones who can release themselves from their situation. Edited December 30, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Yes. The Palestinians are the main responsible to their problem and they are the only ones who can release themselves from their situation. Not when Israel is occupying and blockading them they can’t. Edited December 30, 2023 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) @Raze Ok then Israel has to end and Jews will immigrate to America to let the Palestinians solve their problem. Edited December 30, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Raze Ok then Israel has to end and Jews will immigrate to America to let the Palestinians solve their problem. Or Israel could let Palestinians have a state, end the blockade and occupation, and pull the settlers out. Has stopping the formation of a Palestinian state, blockading Gaza, and occupying the West Bank and letting settlers live in it made Israel safer? Is Israel safer right now when it’s at war and risking war with Iran? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 @Raze I am for it but they got countless offers to have a state and refused. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @Raze I am for it but they got countless offers to have a state and refused. Netanyahu admitted he is blocking it https://www.huffpost.com/entry/benjamin-netanyahu-prevented-palestinian-state-two-state-solution_n_6580a368e4b0e142c0bed60b Every year Israel blocks the general UN assembly of “peaceful settlement of the question of palestine” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @Raze I am for it but they got countless offers to have a state and refused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 30, 2023 @zazen 4 minutes ago, zazen said: Very brave journalist. Even if someone isn't a body language expert, the mood in the room and their faces when he's talking says it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) @zazen That's why the offers said "with area exchanges" to provide them still the area that is as big as 67' lines just different (then no need to evacuate the settlements) so Gideon Levi doesn't prove anything here. By the way he is roughly the most radical journalist in Israel. Not sure if his statements are reliable enough. Has to be taken with a grain of salt. Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 Another punchy video by him: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) @Danioover9000 Thanks for sharing. Amaizing video. I would add one more layer of western disgusting hypocrisy Today Ukraine launched an attack on civilians killing around 20 people in Russia. Western leaders said it was Russia s fault for starting the illegal occupation of Ukraine. Fair enough. But when Hamas launches a similar attack on civilians in response to Israeli s illegal occupation of Southern Palestine, they are labeled as terrorists. Ukraine attack on civilians today is not. Disgusting double standards Edited December 31, 2023 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 46 minutes ago, Nivsch said: That's why the offers said "with area exchanges" to provide them still the area that is as big as 67' lines just different (then no need to evacuate the settlements) so Gideon Levi doesn't prove anything here. 1947 borders are the real ones, anything else is purely stolen land. The UN decided to create Israel under the 1947 borders Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) @Karmadhi Yes but the Arab started the war because they didn't accept those borders. What proves to us - they are not satisfied even with 48' borders! Edited December 31, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 The full 84-page application to the registrar of the International Court of Justice by the government of South Africa:- https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf Very damning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) It's such a massive document it's almost impossible to digest but it's crammed with damning paragraphs:- "29. The Commission found that there were reasonable grounds to believe that Israeli snipers “intentionally shot” children, knowing them to be children,114 and they also “intentionally shot” health workers and journalists “despite seeing that they were clearly marked as such”.115 It further found “reasonable grounds to believe” that Israeli snipers shot disabled demonstrators “intentionally, despite seeing that they had visible disabilities” and despite them not presenting an imminent threat." "629. Taking into account the weapons used, and in particular the use of white phosphorous in and around a hospital that the Israeli armed forces knew was not only dealing with scores of injured and wounded but also giving shelter to several hundred civilians, the Mission finds, based on all the information available to it, that in directly striking the hospital and the ambulance depot the Israeli armed forces in these circumstances violated article 18 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and violated customary international law in relation to proportionality. . . ." "114. Israel has engaged in and failed to prevent or to punish acts and measures which are genocidal, constituting flagrant violations of Israel’s obligations under Articles I, III (a), III (b), III (c), III (d), III (e), IV, V and VI of the Genocide Convention. As further evidenced in the materials set out in the application, the acts of genocide in question in breach of Articles II (a), II (b), II (c) and II (d), in particular, that collectively target the Palestinians in Gaza include, inter alia: (1) killing Palestinians in Gaza, including a large proportion of women and children — estimated to account for around 70 per cent of the more than 21,110 fatalities — some of whom appear to have been summarily executed; (2) causing serious mental and bodily harm to Palestinians in Gaza, including through maiming, psychological trauma, and inhuman and degrading treatment; (3) causing the forced evacuation and displacement of around 85 per cent of Palestinians in Gaza — including children, the elderly and infirm, and the sick and wounded — as well as causing the large scale destruction of Palestinian homes, villages, refugee camps, towns and entire areas in Gaza, precluding the return of a significant proportion of the Palestinian people to their homes; (4) causing widespread hunger, dehydration and starvation to besieged Palestinians in Gaza, through the impeding of sufficient humanitarian assistance, the cutting off of sufficient water, food, fuel and electricity, and the destruction of bakeries, mills, agricultural lands and other methods of production and sustenance; (5) failing to provide and restricting the provision of adequate shelter, clothes, hygiene or sanitation to Palestinians in Gaza, including the 1.9 million internally displaced people, compelled by Israel’s actions to live in dangerous situations of squalor, alongside the routine targeting and destruction of places of shelter and the killing and wounding of those sheltering, including women, children, the disabled and the elderly; (6) failing to provide for or to ensure the provision for the medical needs of Palestinians in Gaza, including those medical needs created by other genocidal acts causing serious bodily harm, including through directly attacking Palestinian hospitals, ambulances and other healthcare facilities in Gaza, killing Palestinian doctors, medics and nurses, including the most qualified medics in Gaza, and destroying and disabling Gaza’s medical system; and (7) destroying Palestinian life in Gaza, through the destruction of Gaza’s universities, schools, courts, public buildings, public records, stores, libraries, churches, mosques, roads, infrastructure, utilities and other facilities necessary to the sustained life of Palestinians in Gaza as a group, alongside the killing of entire family groups — erasing entire oral histories in Gaza — and the killing of prominent and distinguished members of society. (8) Imposing measures intended to prevent Palestinian births in Gaza, through the reproductive violence inflicted on Palestinian women, newborn babies, infants, and children." Edited December 31, 2023 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 31, 2023 1. "Reasonable reason to believe..." wow. What a proof. 2. "Causing physcial and mental harm". Yes. This is war. 3. "Causing force evacuation and diaplacement." Yes. Whem hamas stick itself to them in super glue. 4. "Failing to provide shelter and medical needs". So now Israel is responisble to 2 millions people's health care too? 5. "Destroying palestinians life in Gaza" what a scientific claim. Yes people life are being destroyed on both sides. Including tens of thousands of young Israeli guys in their 20s and 30s who are now sacrifice their life in the almost or even most dangerous war zone in the world. 6. The only country who is never allowed to win a war, even in far better conditions - Israel. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
