New War In Israel / Gaza

[kenway]

 

[Nivsch]

And from where do you know they aren't terrorists?

From the very moment I saw the author wrote "execution" I understood he is a toxicating devil not worth a serious relation 🙂

But keep linking to absurd claims.

The lies industry of hamas is so sick. It is naive to think hamas will have qualms about truth when doesn't have so about life.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

\

An event in the Netherlands honours the 8,000+ Gaza children killed by Israel.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch Women and childreen are not terrorists. Read the tweet properly.

If they are men that are detained they are basically pow and it is a war crime under the geneva convention to shoot a pow. 
 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Karmadhi

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

And from where do you know they aren't terrorists?

 

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

I don't buy in the whole narrative of "ceasefire now". I get it, you want the killing to end and to do the seemingly compassionate thing. But this is not a matter of wanting but a matter of needing. This war needs to be fought to take away the Hamas threat. 

Maintaining the current status quo will be more dangerous and deadly for both Israelis and Palestinians. Stage green values and morality cannot offer a solution here. The Middle East has it own sets of rules.

You might say its cruel and militaristic of me. But these are also aspects of live that need to be integrated. Israel didn't start this war. If Israel had a button to only eliminate Hamas and leave everybody else be they would do press that button. But this is not how this world works. The nature of this war will produce a lot of civilian casualties. This is not the Napoleonic era where armies fight in an open field and the parties involved gracefully respect each other in a gentleman manner. 

I can understand that it can take a dispassionate look at reality to come up with the most compassionate actions that don’t seemingly look compassionate. Most sane people either side agree to want peace and prosperity - I think they differ on the best method to getting there (war vs ceasefire for example) and how it will manifest (a Palestinian state militarised vs de-militarised for example or occupied by some Israeli presence / security apparatus).

 
Part of integrating is elevating. Maybe in the case of war this means not losing the dynamic of war but elevating the nature of it to a non physical domain. Instead of physical war which spills blood we elevate it to a war of idea’s spilt onto the table of discussion - though I do realise for that to take place there first needs to be a certain amount of peace that allows the fight or flight response to not be present blunting either sides ability to reason with eachother. This seems to be the reasoning behind a ceasefire beyond the simply instinctive response to stop bloodshed and which people can easily virtue signal with.

“This war is not going to take away any underlying causes, only a bona fide peace treaty can do that. This war is about removing Hamas and Gaza's military capabilities. I assume that after the war Israel will retain some security control like it has in the West Bank.”

 

People will argue that whatever designates security control is part of the underlying cause that keeps the cycle going. That is the current status quo which you rightly pointed needs changing but which there isn’t a clear objective solution to except remove Hamas and continue as is until Hamas 2.0 props up or a West Bank style security presence which also gets resistance and condemnation for the settler expansion IDF are complicit in by their lack of prosecution. Having laws aren’t enough but rule of law and implementation of it is needed also.

 That keeps the situation as an occupied / occupier dynamic which Israel will deny or say it isn’t an accurate label of the situation because they know what comes from that isn’t in their favour legally / morally. If Palestinians aren’t given a state in the full sense and Israel remain in some way then it needs to be called for what it is which is occupation or a one state within which different districts with different laws exist for different peoples akin to apartheid.

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi There is no a single woman in that video. Maybe one or two children out of 100-200 adults.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch Shooting those men is a war crime under the geneva convention. Shooting at defenless soldiers is a war crime. Basically even if they were terrorists (and I doubt they are but lets just say they are)  they are POW (prisoners of war) and therefore should not be executed.

It is simple war law

Edited December 25, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi Nobody shot those men.

Please provide a proof for that far reaching claim.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

More terrorists that didn't make it into the video.

 

[Nivsch]

In brief they really don't have nothing here. 

Surrendering is an act IDF is encouraging terrorists who don't want to die to do.

You can say I am wrong and that you don't believe me or IDF, but here, ampirically speaking, there is really nothing more than surrendering.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

 

[kenway]

 

[kenway]

@Nivsch

Will you ever recover from this?

[Nivsch]

@kenway Yes. Those children will recover from the cult of hamas that brainwashes them to honor death and to not respect life at all, neither their own life nor other people's lives.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@kenway Yes. Those children will recover from the cult of hamas that brainwashes them to honor death and to not respect life at all, neither their own life nor other people's lives.

No.

The vast majority will grow up hating israel. A percentage will radicalize, and you will have a couple of hundred thousand more people looking to do you harm, a few hundred thousand if we include the surrounding countries. It won't matter if its this name or another name they take as their identity.

[Nivsch]

@BlueOak The hate won't go away so fast, but a new and better authority and education system can change a lot.

The question is who can do that? The PLO is still not a good option. Creativity is required here, but Netanyahu cannot be trusted on this.

Yes some will radicalize, but some won't, and some maybe the opposite because they know who is the real cause. 

To say that this is for sure only make them more radical is to give them too little credit, and in other words to say they are just puppets on strings that just react to what Israel does and cannot think independently on the situation, especially after their cult leaders are lost control on them and their doctrine turned out to be a failure.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

6 hours ago, Vrubel said:

I don't buy in the whole narrative of "ceasefire now". I get it, you want the killing to end and to do the seemingly compassionate thing. But this is not a matter of wanting but a matter of needing. This war needs to be fought to take away the Hamas threat. 

Maintaining the current status quo will be more dangerous and deadly for both Israelis and Palestinians. Stage green values and morality cannot offer a solution here. The Middle East has it own sets of rules.

You might say its cruel and militaristic of me. But these are also aspects of live that need to be integrated. Israel didn't start this war. If Israel had a button to only eliminate Hamas and leave everybody else be they would do press that button. But this is not how this world works. The nature of this war will produce a lot of civilian casualties. This is not the Napoleonic era where armies fight in an open field and the parties involved gracefully respect each other in a gentleman manner. 

I can understand that it can take a dispassionate look at reality to come up with the most compassionate actions that don’t always seem compassionate on the surface. Most sane people either side agree to want peace and prosperity - I think they differ on the best method to getting there (war vs ceasefire for example) and how it will manifest (a Palestinian state militarised vs de-militarised or Palestinian areas occupied by some Israeli presence / security apparatus).

 
Part of integrating is elevating. Maybe in the case of war this means not losing the dynamic of war but elevating the nature of it to a non physical domain. Instead of physical war which spills blood we elevate it to a war of idea’s spilt onto the table of discussion - though I do realise for that to take place there first needs to be a certain amount of peace that allows the fight or flight response to not be present blunting either sides ability to reason with eachother. This seems to be the reasoning behind a ceasefire beyond the simply instinctive response to stop bloodshed and which people can easily virtue signal with.

“This war is not going to take away any underlying causes, only a bona fide peace treaty can do that. This war is about removing Hamas and Gaza's military capabilities. I assume that after the war Israel will retain some security control like it has in the West Bank.”

 

People will argue that whatever designates security control is part of the underlying cause that keeps the cycle going. That is the current status quo which you rightly pointed needs changing but which there isn’t a clear objective solution to except remove Hamas and continue as is until Hamas 2.0 props up or a West Bank style security presence which also gets resistance and condemnation for the settler expansion IDF are complicit in by their lack of prosecution. Having laws aren’t enough but rule of law and implementation of it is needed also.

 That keeps the situation as an occupied / occupier dynamic which Israel will deny or say it isn’t an accurate label of the situation because they know what comes from that isn’t in their favour legally / morally. If Palestinians aren’t given a state in the full sense and Israel remain in some way then it needs to be called for what it is which is occupation or a one state within which different districts with different laws exist for different peoples akin to apartheid.

[BlueOak]

@Nivsch
Straight talk, nobody in that region has a realistic chance at stabilizing it peacefully now. People will just eventually tire of violence. Until a tragedy in response to this is great enough to flare it up again on a large scale.

Large groups in survival situations don't often respond unpredictably. It will be a % that decides violence is the best course of action, if I say 5% radicalize of 2 million from gaza that's 100k, 200k if we say 10%.

After that its less predictable, depending on how connected people are to those dying or affected. The Westbank has 2.6 million people living there, 5.2 million in Lebanon, How many more recruits do Hamas or Hezbollah get from this? Hezbollah is 100,000 or so currently. Shall we say a combined 50,000 more radicalize from these two regions which are affected but less so, which is optimistically less than 1%.

We are up to 150k to 250k. The Houthi are about 200k largely out of range but involved in hitting or detering your shipping, which is hurting you economically.

So we are at 350k to 450k. 

Surrounding countries, shall we say 20,000 more total are contributed to these radical groups, which is a very small number percentage-wise.

370k to 470k. Seems a reasonable number of new opponents, adding to the ones you had before. Direct Iran involvement backed by Russia is still a possibility, it's good for Russia if the West is distracted here. I think that is unlikely though despite the rhetoric.

Though if we say Hezbollah do stay more involved while Iran is interested in doing so, not exactly new opponents, but nevertheless given cause and reason to fight.

470k, to 570k, adding to whatever forces you currently face.

[Lila9]

A picture our soliders found in Khan Yunis - this is exactly how Palestinians educate their children in Gaza from the moment they are born to grow up to be terrorists.