New War In Israel / Gaza

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

I heard a professor say that as with 9/11 it’s expected for people to be outraged speaking emotionally but that died down within a month

Such things don't die down within a month, get real. Israelis are nowhere near closure. The whole thing is still ongoing with the hostages and young soldiers fighting. 

[Vrubel]

Watch if you're interested in the perspective of an Israeli soldier in Gaza and the reality she faces as much of the youth in Israel. What responsibility and challenges did you heave when you were 20?

Really heavy topic is discussed at 5:25

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Watch if you're interested in the perspective of an Israeli soldier in Gaza and the reality she faces as much of the youth in Israel. What responsibility and challenges did you heave when you were 20?

Really heavy topic is discussed at 5:25

Great video!

Israeli soldier are normal human beings apparently! 👩🧑 It will be difficult for people here to see that. Need to add a viewing warning before.

IDF take a break.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, zazen said:

@Danioover9000 

As Lina said - look forward to your comments after a needed break - this thread isn’t going anywhere haha

Interesting read on the body language. 

Of course its interesting to read. As long as some far right wing or a rabbi says something juicy against palestinians it is interesting to flood the thread with, and demonize Israel and demonize the incredibly brave half kids risking their life, barely sleeping risking their health too, to promote the release of the hostages that their suffering is 100 times more than any other citizen from any side of this war. But cherry picking is more important.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Jodistrict]

 

[Merkabah Star]

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Watch if you're interested in the perspective of an Israeli soldier in Gaza and the reality she faces as much of the youth in Israel. What responsibility and challenges did you heave when you were 20?

Really heavy topic is discussed at 5:25

Sweet girl. 
 

that was major propaganda that video tho. This is the sort of thing on repeat on Israeli tv no doubt. 
 

 

[YeahIam]

@Nivsch 

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Of course its interesting to read. As long as some far right wing or a rabbi says something juicy against palestinians it is interesting to flood the thread with, and demonize Israel and demonize the incredibly brave half kids risking their life, barely sleeping risking their health too, to promote the release of the hostages that their suffering is 100 times more than any other citizen from any side of this war. But cherry picking is more important

[Merkabah Star]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

and demonize Israel and demonize the incredibly brave half kids risking their life, barely sleeping risking their health too, to promote the release of the hostages that their suffering is 100 times more than any other citizen from any side of this war. But cherry picking is more important.

I think everyone feels for the hostages and what they are going through. If your country allows a proper ceasefire they will release them all. Simple. 
 

it is a pretty horrific experience the civilians of Gaza are living through too. It is hard for foreigners to feel sorry for Israel with so much killing and destruction going on. It is terrorism. 

[Merkabah Star]

 

[Nivsch]

@Merkabah Star The children of Gaza are brainwashed and posioned into jihad, shuada and killing by the cult of hamas and don't have a life or a chance of an healthy independent thinking anyway. Blame hamas on that. This war is their only chance to be free and to heal. No ceasefire until Gaza is clean from the virus.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

14 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Merkabah Star  This war is their only chance to be free and to heal. No ceasefire until Gaza is clean from the virus.

All this brutal war is doing is making more extremists than before. 
 

oh yes, the virus word again. 

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

All this brutal war is doing is making more extremists than before. 
 

oh yes, the virus word again. 

Not necessarily.

See what happened after WW2 for example.

We can't know exactly what it will bring. It depends very much on how the geopolitical window of opportunity will be utilized.

Also such an extreme crisis can awaken part of the population. Deep down part of them know who is the real cause.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

@Nivsch

yeah right. You live in fantasy land in your head. 
 

 

[zazen]

12 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Such things don't die down within a month, get real. Israelis are nowhere near closure. The whole thing is still ongoing with the hostages and young soldiers fighting. 

True, what differentiates this from 9/11 is that the perpetrators of the attack are on the border and not far away in the case of US / Afghanistan and the Israeli's are hypersensitive to threat due to their past traumatic history. But hypersensitivity may get the best of them - it informs their military strategy and reaction (Dahiya doctrine) and establishing a deterrence capacity through show of force. Their hypersensitivity makes them insensitive to the suffering of others and international law - both of which only causes more suffering (as a response) and global condemnation + rise in anti-Semitism.

The general shift of the society to the right and the rhetoric and attitude even before October 7th is telling. It's hard to tell between what is a reaction to October 7th or what is a revelation of their true character and feelings towards Palestinians.

We are told that Palestinians or the Muslim populations in general have something wrong within their own society (a virus as Nivschs says) making them more violent - yet it's the US and Israel who insist upon this war rather than a ceasefire. The Arab nations have mostly tried to de-escalate except Yemen who is the most active in retaliating and causing economic pain.

[lina]

15 minutes ago, zazen said:

We are told that Palestinians or the Muslim populations in general have something wrong within their own society (a virus as Nivschs says) making them more violent 

Sam Harris's faulty biased narrative is infecting a lot. They genuinely believes an ideology has the power to make 2.3 million people in Gaza or (2 billion Muslim in the world) to be gleefully waiting for Martyrdom and willing to commit suicide bombing any day. Let's dismiss basic psychology and the cries and calls for help by the Gazans to save their lives and believe Sam Harris instead. 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by lina

[zazen]

15 minutes ago, lina said:

Sam Harris's faulty biased narrative is infecting a lot. They genuinely believes an ideology has the power to make 2.3 million people in Gaza or (2 billion Muslim in the world) to be gleefully waiting for Martyrdom and willing to commit suicide bombing any day. Let's dismiss basic psychology and the cries and calls for help by the Gazans to save their lives and believe Sam Harris instead. 

 

 

True - militaristic jihad and martyrdom aren't life goals of Muslims lol they do however help frame struggle and suffering to make them more bearable similar to how self help / law of attraction / stoicism re-frames life's hardships as a buffer against them. Of course these can be taken to extreme degrees - majority of Muslims criticise these extreme manifestations yet ignorance will still blanket label 2 billion people.

If most people mingled with and broke bread with different people including 'stage red' 'developing people' they'd realise beyond the superficial differences we are mostly the same with the same encoded desires and drives that biology chains us down to. Having friends from these places and been to them myself I can attest to that.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by zazen

[lina]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

 militaristic jihad and martyrdom aren't life goals of Muslims lol they do however help frame struggle and suffering to make them more bearable similar to how self help / law of attraction / stoicism re-frames life's hardships as a buffer against them.

Well said. Trying to gaslight that suffering and struggling by pointing fingers at said framework will take us nowhere. Without addressing the root cause the problem will only become bigger. 

[Danioover9000]

   Early Merry Christmas:

 

[Vrubel]

14 minutes ago, zazen said:

Their hypersensitivity makes them insensitive to the suffering of others and international law - both of which only causes more suffering (as a response) and global condemnation + rise in anti-Semitism.

I get your point but there is nothing really exceptional about the Israeli reaction, trauma or no trauma, the way Hamas unleashed itself on civilians is beyond anything. Most countries would react the same and worse. The bottom line is that Israel has to take away the threat now, which can only be done by a full-scale war and the overpowering of Hamas.
 

19 minutes ago, zazen said:

The general shift of the society to the right and the rhetoric and attitude even before October 7th is telling. It's hard to tell between what is a reaction to October 7th or what is a revelation of their true character and feelings towards Palestinians.

Palestinians can choose the path of accumulating compassion or can choose war and terrorism. They chose the latter hence Israel's peace movement is nowadays nothing of what it used to be. History shows that peaceful struggles for political rights can be extremely effective, especially given the special status of the Palestinians and how much media attention they get. Palestinians will never get the critical mass of sympathy as long as they do and embrace terrorism. Most people will not have deep sympathy for a culture laced with Islamism and genocidal anti-Semitism. On the other hand, it's very easy (especially for Western people) to have sympathy towards a level-headed peaceful person on whom injustice is done. Unfortunately, evil won out over good in the current situation. 

 

35 minutes ago, zazen said:

We are told that Palestinians or the Muslim populations in general have something wrong within their own society (a virus as Nivschs says) making them more violent - yet it's the US and Israel who insist upon this war rather than a ceasefire. The Arab nations have mostly tried to de-escalate except Yemen who is the most active in retaliating and causing economic pain.

A ceasefire for Israel is an absolute absurdity. It must now finish the job and return to a point of security and deterrence so that the border kibbutz villages can again get populated and the threat of terrorist infiltrations and rockets is gone. Obviously, it's easy for countries that don't face the Israeli survival challenge to call for a ceasefire. 
I would argue that in the long term, it's more compassionate for everyone if Israel finishes the job and removes Hamas from power. It would be a nightmare scenario also for the Palestinians if they still get ruled over by such an organization that dehumanizes their own population so deeply and absolutely. 
I think most Gazans don't support Hamas anymore which brought them nothing but destitution and destruction. I have seen how they speak out against Hamas. For some reason, it's often the old grannies who are the wisest and have the biggest balls.

 

13 minutes ago, zazen said:

True - militaristic jihad and martyrdom aren't life goals of Muslims lol they do however help frame struggle and suffering to make them more bearable similar to how self help / law of attraction / stoicism re-frames life's hardships as a buffer against them. Of course these can be taken to extreme degrees - majority of Muslims criticise these extreme manifestations yet ignorance will still blanket label 2 billion people.

If most people mingled with and broke bread with different people including 'stage red' 'developing people' they'd realise beyond the superficial differences we are mostly the same with the same encoded desires and drives that biology chains us down to. Having friends from these places and been to them myself I can attest to that.

Yes, a huge part of the problem is that people build demonizing myths about each other if they don't interact with each other. I don't have cartoonish views of stage red people, I also traveled a lot including to some really impoverished ghetto places. Most of them are nice pleasant people but they make for low-quality dysfunctional societies. The last thing you want to throw into such a place is an Islamist ideology. 

[Raze]

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Raze