Posted December 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: Why have Jews been hated for millenia by most of the world? Maybe also they have a problem with how they act? See how racist your logic is. Jews also have their unique disadvantages! Yes. Everyone have. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) There is nothing racist in saying a person (or a collective group) has problems with how he or she percieves himself or herself and other people intentions about him/her. The same problem can be expressed in a collective way too, and every collective group has its own weaknesses and strengths. I am not saying the Jews are better, but they just have weaknesses in other places. Edited December 15, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Nivsch said: There is nothing racist in saying a person (or a collective group) has problems with how he or she percieve him or herself and other people intentions about him/her. The same problem can be expressed in a collective way and every collective group has its own weaknesses and strengths. I am not saying the Jews are better, but they just have weaknesses in other places. Ok when you put it in that way then we can agree. You seem the most open of the Israelis, I think if everyone was like you the conflict would have hope of being solved. I have seen countless horrible videos of Israeli childreen in classrooms being brainwashed into thinking Arabs are evil and secularism is bad. Also seen plenty of people celebrating over Isarel destroying Gaza (even before the terrorist attacks) and other stuff like this. Also videos of some settlers saying "it is our right to take whatever we want here because we are the chosen ones". Such people combined with the right wing government there at the moment make things seem difficult to improve towards peace. I do not know though how common people with such views are. Edited December 15, 2023 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) Part of solving the problem is very much have to go through a therapuetic-spiritual attitude (customized personally to every side's weaknesses and obstacles to growth) not less than a geopolitical one. Edited December 15, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Part of solving the problem is very much have to go through a therapuetic-spiritual attitude (customized personally to every side weaknesses and obstacles to growth) not less than a geopolitical one How could you do that? I do not understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) @Karmadhi I really don't know to say how it can be done practically except that this is the insight I started to feel about this issue. The spiral dynamics strategy for example has already tried to be implemented, but it is still not a broad or deep enough strategy by itself, if we assume that stages are not the only factor but also cultural qualities and dominant psychological barriers which are unique to every culture. Edited December 15, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Karmadhi said: A democracy treats everyone equal. Bahahahahaha.... You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 A cnn journalist got into Gaza Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 You guys are gonna have a field day with the latest CNN news. God help us all. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) @Karmadhi Actually the education I went through was quite pluralistic and about respecting others and differences. Yes of course we have learned also about our enemies and etc but only in the sense that Israel went through wars and peace agreements, but not about that anyone is evil or that we have to eliminate someone. Not at all. I can't say there aren't schools that teach more fanatic ideas as you mentioned, but I think they represent a minority. If you can send me the links and I will watch and relate. Edited December 15, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: You guys are gonna have a field day with the latest CNN news. God help us all. Who’s batting first captain? Might have to sit this one out Zazen style Edited December 15, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 13 minutes ago, Raze said: A cnn journalist got into Gaza Gazan kids are experiencing extreme horror and trauma which will result in clinical anxiety and depression, and murderous desires towards oneself and others when these kids become adults. The evil being inflicted by Israel now will have lingering effects for more than a century, becoming very significant and evident in the next 40 years. Devils have always made Earth more similar to hell than heaven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Raze said: A cnn journalist got into Gaza Devastating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-hostages-in-gaza-killed-by-friendly-fire-israeli-military-says/ https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nearly-15-israeli-soldiers-killed-gaza-died-due-friendly-fire-accident-rcna129285 Israel has admitted it shot its own civilians on Oct 7, accidentally killed hostages, and accidentally killed many of their own soldiers from friendly fire. This may make the population more angry at their government. So for polls find Israeli’s actually want the IDF to use more force on Gaza so they probably don’t care about Palestinian lives, but learning their government may have taken their own peoples lives will make them react. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) Edited December 15, 2023 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) @Raze Yes the helicopters helped to kill hamas people near the border at the beginning before IDF entered the kibbutses, and often it was harder for them to be accurate in the identifications so there were few mistakes. But nothing will change the facts: ~1200 murdered (~360 in Nova) 240 kidnapped By hamas. Edited December 15, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 @Raze 21 minutes ago, Raze said: That's just even worse, that cat didn't deserve to get it's leg injured by an Israeli bomb. Sickos. This whole Israel/Palestine conflict sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, hundreth said: I'm not going to respond to your entire self righteous and sanctimonious essay. This is how you frame the entire conflict, and that's unfortunate. I don't frame it the same way. Jews migrated to Palestine, population shifts happen. Jews are no more occupiers in Palestine than Mexicans migrating to the United States. They purchased land legally. You can point to isolated quotes from Zionist leaders with nefarious purposes out of context, but it doesn't change the fact that Jews never forcibly removed Palestinians from their lands before the UN resolution, and the arabs declaring war against the Jews. This isn't the minority report, you can't convict Jews based on the thoughts or isolated quotes from certain Zionists. Once war breaks out, things happen. I know it makes you upset, but the Palestinians LOST the war. THEY LOST. Now you want to behave as though Israelis are "arrogant" because they hold all the cards. F that. Mexicans aren't trying to displace Americans and establish their own state with biased laws. That's stretching the definition of the word. Here’s a linked index of discriminatory laws from the democracy known as Israel - https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index Partial truths are a dangerous thing. Sure, not all the Palestinians in the Nakba (a term legislatively banned in Israel) were massacred or directly terrorised by the Haganah (main paramilitary organization which became the core of the IDF) but a great enough proportion were that rumours spread and Palestinians warned their communities leading them to leave - it was the catalyst. Why else would people who had been there generations get up and leave - you think they voluntarily just left and had a change of heart deciding their more beach people preferring Gaza rather than mountainous people in land. Forcibly removed doesn't mean gunpoint evacuation it can be coerced by atrocities and terrorising. The Jewish population in Mandatory Palestine was less than a third of which most arrived between 1924-1939 - meaning that majority of those advocating for partition had been living there for at most 20 years. Yet, the UN partition plan allocated approximately 56% of the land of Mandatory Palestine to the Jewish state. Why were Palestinians expected to agree to cede the majority of their land to a minority of recently arrived settlers? The rejection of such an unfair proposal is often portrayed as irrational or hateful, but why should it be seen as such? Israel thinks it holds all the blood stained cards, but the world has voted and sided with the truth except a few. What were once deemed terrorists such as Mat Turner of the slave revolt or Mandela of South Africa are now lauded as heroes of emancipation. Resistance movements are built on the blood of martyrs which Israel ensures a continual supply of. Their called grassroots movements for a reason - you can't get rid of them unless you poison the soil ie genocide, expulsion or brutal subjugation. Resistance will never stop unless the soil is destroyed because its the soil (people) that keeps the grass (resistance) growing. If Israel or any countries safety requires the occupation, imprisonment and oppression of a people, you don't have safety and never will. Everything Israel obtains through oppression is inherently violent and must be upheld through violence - that violence will be justified through ideas of superiority and the idea that those you oppress must be more violent and oppressive than you. Edited December 16, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 @jaylimix i've been reading your latest comments i think i should make the subsequent objections: 1- you claim the word Genocide is not fitting situation in Palestine - i invite you to take at look at my post page 241. The term can be applied and there is consensus on it, but western mainstream media is reclutant to talk about it for obvious reasons. 2- the fact that the population of palestinians is rising doesn't tell much about the quality of their existence. 3- You should't blame it on Islam about the suicide bombers. Pretty much every religion had their terrorist throughout history. The problem is their level of development and situation, not religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 15, 2023 interesting: this documentary from 2012 interviews former heads of Israel’s domestic security agency on what sets Israel’s security policy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
