New War In Israel / Gaza

[BlueOak]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

You should look at the Palestinian government, who governs then? They are governed by terrorists.

These people receive so much money frim all over the world, why don't they use it to improve the lives of the Palestinians?

They radicalize their own people, first and foremost.

Sure, point me at the Palestinian's I need to convince on here about how their own government has destroyed their people and way of life, who raised their kids thinking resistance was the only way, when in reality it was one aspect of many they could consider, instead of turning their back on resisting what is and taking the hard opposite road. You can't because you have all the power, even the communication, so what do I do keep confirming your own bias for you? Why do you need that, just look in a mirror. They cultivated a culture that sees death as a beneficial end result, I can't stress how stupid that is, but there is nobody here to tell because you've leveled their homes. So I have to instead sit here and try to say why that's not an ideal approach to solving a crisis situation, because you are all that's represented here or speaking.
 

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, because this issue cannot be solved by taking the side of one or the other in the fighting. This requires going meta, which few minds are willing to do, so we have endless conflict.

A conversation goes Meta naturally by virtue of having different opinions expressed (remember our discussion about the real point of presidential debates) However I would honestly welcome you to tell me how I could take a more meta view here, hit my ego as hard as you like.

I could echo that yes it's an effective way to remove a threat, done while America still has the naval power to somewhat secure their cargo ships or take out missiles headed their way, or that Israel has lived in fear for many decades. That their neighbors want them dead. That it is fully understandable why they would pick the course they have, after feeling exhausted and spent trying other options. But i've been in that state more than once, and making decisions from it just ends badly, I can't think of one good choice I made while afraid and in fight/flight, i've regretted every one of them. I needed someone, an event, or something to pull me out of it, and this is a good mirror for my own resistance when someone tries to say something like:

You've got power even when it seems hopeless. You are not only a victim. You are not alone even when it feels like it. Your actions decide how this goes. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BlueOak

[Nivsch]

20 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

or that Israel has lived in fear for many decades. That their neighbors want them dead. That it is fully understandable why they would pick the course they have, after feeling exhausted and spent trying other options.

Thank you for that 🌼

First time I feel an understanding of Israelis deep feelings (from someone who is not Israeli) and survival situation.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

33 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

lose of sense of security in your own home.

People with different intentions will call for a ceasefire. They could just want genuine peace and to stop innocent lives being lost, they could be Hamas supporters that want them to have some breathing space to regather and re position strongly to counter Israel or they could genuinely see that this non stop destruction Israel is committing is actually the real threat and loss of security for Israel. As can be seen from todays news from Biden and as Osama Bin Shapiro's love letter stated - Israel can't afford to lose its main or only ally in a region it can't afford to be lonely in. 

The same day Biden says that Bibi can’t deny a Palestinian state the Israeli ambassador says no to one.

Edited December 13, 2023 by zazen

[BlueOak]

@Nivsch
Welcome. I hope it gets better.
I need to show more empathy when I communicate. Rather than just be contrarian.

[Lila9]

This satire is spot on 😳

 

[Leo Gura]

@Lila9 Israel has 100x more money than all of Palestine. Why is Israel collecting money from the US?

I will start kicking people out of the politics sub-forum who cannot demonstrate a basic check on their biases.

The goal of our work here is to minimize self-bias when we look at reality.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

27 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This satire is spot on 😳

 

Well... it's absolutly true and an important point.  Meanwhile sons of Israeli politicians are fighting on the ground in Gaza.

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Lila9 Israel has 100x more money than all of Palestine. Why is Israel collecting money from the US?

For Israel's defense, because Israel is American proxy in the Middle East, an ally, a strategical tool for US. 

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will start kicking people out of the politics sub-forum who cannot demonstrate a basic check on their biases.

Relax, I'm not your enemy, I speak what I know. Take it or leave it.

 

[Lila9]

10 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Meanwhile sons of Israeli politicians are fighting on the ground in Gaza.

It tells a lot. 

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, because this issue cannot be solved by taking the side of one or the other in the fighting. This requires going meta, which few minds are willing to do, so we have endless conflict.

   And this is the theme of this entire thread here, deluded polarized people too pro for Palestinians but especially for Israel without realizing the technological differences in this warfare.

4 hours ago, zazen said:

And that's people who are on this forum exposed to Leo's body of work and self development, non duality and love etc lol

 

[Raze]

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Raze

[Girzo]

It's actually funny how the most biased people are the loudest. Maybe because their limited perspective needs constant protection from clashing with reality.

[Vrubel]

For those who live in the West, just be grateful that you live without war and terrorist massacres and don't know what it implies. You're still innocent and therefore naive and ignorant about these aspects of life. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

For those who live in the West, just be grateful that you live without war and terrorist massacres and don't know what it implies. You're still innocent and therefore naive and ignorant about these aspects of life. 

Those of you who live in Israel, just be grateful that you live without being carpet bombed with US munitions. You are still innocent and therefore naive and ignorant about these aspects of life.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Relax, I'm not your enemy, I speak what I know. Take it or leave it.

You spread self-bias with no remorse.

[Raze]

 

 

[zazen]

40 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

For those who live in the West, just be grateful that you live without war and terrorist massacres and don't know what it implies. You're still innocent and therefore naive and ignorant about these aspects of life. 

I will do a gratitude meditation with just that in mind but would like to point out also to Israel and any Isrealis to be grateful to have allies and friends that come to you with good intentions and are not rolling and drowned in the emotions your people are under that blinds your bloodshot vision and fogs your brains in the fog of war.

It can take a dispassionate look at the problems of reality and your situation to come to the most compassionate solution for all - though those busy in vengeance and war will reframe this otherwise.

When Isreals foot reflexively straightens and pushes down on the accelerator of retaliation and revenge locked into place - be grateful for that friend who will come to dislodge your foot and push down the brake to stop your nation and peoples going off the cliff that you not only drag yourselves off of but the regions - maybe even the world, including that very friend. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by zazen

[Raze]

 

[zazen]

@Raze  That Norman / Alan discussion was like two heavyweights in the mental cage. When Norman smirked during Alans remarks you know had caught him out.

@Danioover9000  Indeed. Need to aim to go meta and not get mucky in the mud as Leo mentions. The thread was going off the rails and Leo came to verbally slap us into line and away from our biases which was needed lol

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

When Isreals foot reflexively straightens and pushes down on the accelerator of retaliation and revenge locked into place - be grateful for that friend who will come to dislodge your foot and push the down the brake to stop your nation and peoples way off the cliff that your actions can not only drag yourselves off of but the regions - maybe even the world including that very friend.

Let me try to challenge that, because the rage and feeling of unjustness is accumulated and been cooked for years.

What did you do, if you had for 18 years, every 1-2 years on average, to go for a quite surgical, limited but smart, intelligence-based operation against a gerilla organization because it just doesn't stop shooting missiles on your villages and cities.

And every time again, this organization hides behind civilians, what makes western countries who also holds your values, who are supposed to understand your side, to blame you again and again, when you feel this is such an unjustness, because you know you try hard to kill only terrorists.

But they are champion genius in showing a distorted exaggerated picture to the world and to hide behind their own people. And please check in wikipedia the killing ratio then that was 80% and more to the favor of terrorists quite decent.

But your hands are being bounded every time after couple of days or maximum weeks, again and again.

And one day this organization which exhuasted you for 18 years, kills 1200 people of you and in such a nightmarish way. Threatening your sense of security and survival in a way you never experienced before, and plus (bonus) when you know hezbollah could also join this surprise (By the original Iranian plan according to reliable sources I can add them) and threaten your very existance seriously.

Having said all of the above, what would you do now?

The question is not about backward justification yes or no, but about what any country would realisticly do.

Just think about it and let it sink a little.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Nivsch