New War In Israel / Gaza

[BlueOak]

Just now, jaylimix said:

I am NOT a Jew, Israeli, Arab, or a Muslim, for me there is no veil of self-bias, threat of career destruction, or financial incentive.

By default this already makes me a better judger of the situation, and I stand with Israel.

There is never not a self-bias. You are yourself, you have a bias. 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

I conclude the IDF is the most moral army in the world.

Lol

Edited December 12, 2023 by Leo Gura

[jaylimix]

9 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Communicating to who? People who had their communications cut?

How long does it take to move a million people south down a couple of roads under fire?

What about all the people that can't move? Screw them right?

What about the people when they get south, sit them in a desert right, let them starve, screw them.

Blow anyone up that says a bad word about you? Can't have that.

Ban me if I say what I really feel right on a communication platform? Criminalize an opposing view that would moderate the response.

1) If you had been more informed or had just watched the video that was attached, you would have known that paper flyers on plane were dropped to the Gazans.

2) They have one month to move south before the real airstrikes started to rain down on Gaza. Keep in mind the targets were rocket launchers launching rockets into Insrael.

3) Carry them, they have a month's time.

4) Aid/Food trucks are coming into the south from Egypt daily, what are you talking about?

5) Are you referring to the butt hole Refaat?

6) Ban who? The Haaretz who is based in Israel, still talks poop about its own country and serves as the enemy's mouthpiece, witness what a true democracy looks like.

[BlueOak]

Just now, jaylimix said:

1) If you had been more informed or had just watched the video that was attached, you would have known that paper flyers on plane were dropped to the Gazans.

2) They have one month to move south before the real airstrikes started to rain down on Gaza. Keep in mind the targets were rocket launchers launching rockets into Insrael.

3) Carry them, they have a month's time.

4) Aid/Food trucks are coming into the south from Egypt daily, what are you talking about?

5) Are you referring to the butt hole Refaat?

6) Ban who? The Haaretz who is based in Israel, still talks poop about its own country and serves as the enemy's mouthpiece, witness what a true democracy looks like.

1) In wartime flyers acting as discarded pieces of paper are not very effective, often ignored being considered enemy propaganda.

2) Simply false. The response was almost immediate. I was watching airstrikes happen.

3) They had no time at all, they were immediately being bombed. The first people knew about it they were under fire. Not long after that north gaza was cut off and surrounded. You couldn't pay me to walk that blockade now. Even at the start have to be brave to walk out in the open under fire, watching people die around you, and walking to where? A place with no certainty of anything when you get there.

Not to mention, nobody in that region trusts anyone. For all they knew they would be walking to their deaths, many did.

4) The lack of food, water, and shelter, There is nowhere near enough. Also, the UN shelters keep getting hit to kill one guy, out of 30. Because Israel is dumb. There is no other way to say it, the way they are doing all this is ineffective, their leadership is short-sighted, and not very intelligent as to the long-term consequences of acting with this severity unilaterally. 

I heard someone who was pro israel turn around and say their leader should be shot today. That's the change that's happened internationally. They want to act alone, they'll be alone.

5) It's about 80 journalists who have been killed, but yeah people who speak out also. It was recently reported an elderly lady was killed by a sniper for saying she was older than Israel, as an example. The individual accounts, your feelings on killing people you don't like (which is concerning you'd state that) and specific details are less important than the fact civilians or the press are considered legitimate targets. Israel is acting as a terrorist state. By supporting them, America is acting as a state sponsor of terrorism. 

6) In wartime, outside voices help moderate the response naturally. Unilateral action with silenced dissent from the people with the most emotional investment, leads to an extended period of suffering for all involved. 

Banning anyone. When this first broke I couldn't say a word against this on the major media platforms, it took a lot of pressure to get that reversed. They were pushing a bill in the US to make anti-Zionism anti-Semitic, I don't know the status of that effort. It's incredibly easy to get your video pulled from youtube if don't walk on eggshells. They've been arresting people protesting in America, we get more leeway in the UK because we are not as far down the fascist rabbit hole yet.

The whole point of collective voices or diplomacy for example is to stop states going too far. Israel has gone too far. Targeting civilians on mass to cause terror. which is the definition of terrorism, and America is sponsoring it. Both Hamas and Israel are a reflection of each other. Its given me a good view that the American government is hardly better than Russia, just in a different geological position.

[jaylimix]

22 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

There is never not a self-bias. You are yourself, you have a bias. 

Okay I'll tell you what my bias is.

We came out of caves into villages when we were finally able to grow our food.

From villages we turned it into kingdoms, from rules to written laws, from Monarchy into Democracy.

We have suffered diseases and we overcame it with the invention medicines.

We have suffered famine and we overcame it by building a sustainable food production chain.

We build and build our human civilization and Israel is the leader in building human civilization.

So does Palestinian lives matter in the grand scheme of human civilization building? No, they are but a cancer to this process.

I stand with Israel and this is my bias, I want to see Israel survive and thrive.

[BlueOak]

2 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

So does Palestinian lives matter in the grand scheme of human civilization building? No, they are but a cancer to this process.

This part of you is psychopathic. 

[BlueOak]

14 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

I want to see Israel survive and thrive.

I will try and engage this part of you instead.

This military action will do the opposite.

I repeat, it erodes international support by its unilateral nature and its direct targeting of civilians.
Its aggressive response against a similar culture turns the countries in the immediate vicinity further hostile.
It generates hundreds of thousands more militia fighters ready to attack Israel. It will legitimize Hamas again in many quarters.
It legitimacies this level of response against Israel (and sadly other countries), it actually provides a stepping stone for the next level of response against Israel.
America is moving isolationist. They are likely in the Middle East to be replaced or at least rivaled effectively by BRICS. Iran does not like Israel. There is a fair chance that Israel will find less support as a result of this atrocity being committed, and given America's pull towards isolationism, could see themselves undermined significantly.

Yemen is being quite smart targeting naval trade. As this area specifically is where China will rival America soon, the ability to project naval power in the coming decades. So Israel could well see itself starved of what it needs to function as one example. It will undoubtedly see more terrorist attacks as a result of this as another example. Sanctions keep coming from different countries, which I should also show as an example.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by BlueOak

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, jaylimix said:

https://x.com/DrewPavlou/status/1733843183568900167?s=20

They call him a poet, I call him a butt hole.

You hate the guy and are glad he's dead because he didn't like an another man wishing death to his own daughter over the internet?

How old are you, 8?

This thread and the other one about Musk, Tate and co. make remember about the great forum functionality of hiding all of certain users' posts. I highly encourage people of using this function to make the forum more readable. Engaging in simplistic conversation with immature or biased posters is not doing anyone any good.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Girzo

[jaylimix]

3 minutes ago, Girzo said:

You hate the guy and are glad he's dead because he didn't like an another man wishing death to his own daughter over the internet?

He laughed about babies being burned alive in an oven, he called a man who thought that his daughter was killed/kidnapped a wanker and cu**.

So of course I hate the guy.

There is something seriously wrong with you to side with him.

[BlueOak]

10 minutes ago, Girzo said:

This thread and the other one about Musk, Tate and co. make remember about the great forum functionality of hiding all of certain users' posts. I highly encourage people of using this function to make the forum more readable. Engaging in simplistic conversation with immature or biased posters is not doing anyone any good.

Nothing is redundant. I like to think people only reply if they want to, everyone has agency in their actions. I have never replied to someone calling a population a cancer. Nor see this level of justification (from several viewpoints) for slaughter outside of a book or movie. It's honestly a learning experience. 

[kenway]

27 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

We came out of caves into villages when we were finally able to grow our food.

From villages we turned it into kingdoms, from rules to written laws, from Monarchy into Democracy.

We have suffered diseases and we overcame it with the invention medicines.

What are you even talking about?

 

[jaylimix]

21 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

1) I repeat, it erodes international support by its unilateral nature and its direct targeting of civilians.

2) Its aggressive response against a similar culture turns the countries in the immediate vicinity further hostile.

3) It generates hundreds of thousands more militia fighters ready to attack Israel. It will legitimize Hamas again in many quarters.

4) It legitimacies this response against Israel (and sadly other countries), it actually provides a stepping stone for the next level of response against Israel.

5) America is moving isolationist. They are likely in the Middle East to be replaced or at least rivaled effectively by BRICS. Iran does not like Israel. There is a fair chance that Israel will find less support as a result of this atrocity being committed, and given America's pull towards isolationism, could see themselves undermined significantly.

1) For people like you who believes they target civilians, yes it does erodes support, but for people who believes that the IDF targets Hamas' only and there are civilian deaths in the cross fire, no it does not erode support. For extremist like me, the IDF can do whatever they want.

2) Yes that is true for the plebs population, but may not be true for its leaders who secretly wants Hamas destroyed and would rather have a good relationship with Israel and the US for mutual economic developments.

3) This is valid, Muslims will fight for Muslims.

4) That is what the Muslims will say.

5) I don't think so, the next POTUS who likely will be a Republican i.e. Trump/Haley/Desantis are all strong supporters of Israel, the shared tech between the two countries makes an unbreakable bond.  

Edited December 12, 2023 by jaylimix

[jaylimix]

6 minutes ago, kenway said:

What are you even talking about?

The growth and building of human civilization.

[jaylimix]

17 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Nor see this level of justification (from several viewpoints) for slaughter outside of a book or movie. It's honestly a learning experience. 

It's more like I couldn't care less about the Palestinians.

The Palestinians created Hamas to fight and kill for them, and kill they did, brutally. 

You can see videos of them cheering for the death of Israelis, a recent poll also shows their support for Hamas.

And they started the first domino. It's all a self created reality.

Collectively punishing them is justified, though I can see that Israel is not actually doing that.

Edited December 12, 2023 by jaylimix

[Raze]

1 hour ago, jaylimix said:

Personally I have never known a war as moral as this one.

Telling civilians to move south also meant telling the enemy where you want to strike, giving them the advance whilst disadvantaged yourself.

Opening up humanitarian corridors, helping babies in incubators to move.

I conclude the IDF is the most moral army in the world.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/03/gaza-premature-babies-dead-nasr/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-attacking-south-gaza-after-telling-people-go-there-2023-10-25/

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Nabd said:

@Raze The thing is there is no need to invade Iran.

If the US actually wanted, they could have armed the Iranian Kurds there or help the secular revolution that broke out again and again but the west left them alone to be terrorized. They don't even cover them in western media.

Or even better, just arm the local resistance against Iran in countries like Syria and Iraq. Arm the Druze and south Syrians and they will protect the border of Israel too, not because they are in love with Israel but because they know Iran is a brutal enemy. The US doesn't want to and refused to arm any anti-Iran rebel group in Syria for example. They only offered to arm Syrian Kurds under one condition which is to not fight Iran.

The US has funded many anti Iran rebels in Syria and unintentionally armed the Taliban who are also anti Iran.

There is really no indication the US can just start a civil war in Iran, they’ve been having protests but that’s not enough.

What exactly would this accomplish? Should the US also try arming rebels against Israel’s current government, after all the US claims to want a Palestinian state but Netanyahu doesn’t.

[Raze]

50 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

He laughed about babies being burned alive in an oven, he called a man who thought that his daughter was killed/kidnapped a wanker and cu**.

So of course I hate the guy.

There is something seriously wrong with you to side with him.

He was laughing because the story was obvious propaganda. It was already shown to be, even the Israeli media is reporting the baby in the oven incident was made up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war#Dead_baby_in_oven_claim
 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Raze

[jaylimix]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

He was laughing because the story was obvious propaganda. It was already shown to be, even the Israeli media is reporting the baby in the oven incident was made up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war#Dead_baby_in_oven_claim

 

The Wiki page you provided, on the dead oven baby, quoted sources from [32][33][34], two from Haaretz which is a mouthpiece for the enemy, another one from an unknown news network.

I would take the testimonial of Eli Beer over Wikipedia, Aljazeerah, and the Twitter user who is strongly anti-Israel.

This is Eli Beer.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/head-of-israels-ems-service-describes-horror-of-seeing-babies-slaughtered-by-hamas/

Will you all just stop with your BS atrocity denial? 

Edited December 12, 2023 by jaylimix

[jaylimix]

@Raze

Let me add one more thing.

Today's journalist are more of a propagandist than a fighter of truth, did they always lack journalistic integrity? I don't know.

The last person you should trust is a journalist, look at them, look at how bias they are.

You need to take your chances with the testimonials of rescue workers and hospital morgue workers.

[jaylimix]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

 

Imagine you are two different persons, imagine yourself to be because I want you to understand something.

1) You are standing outside, and you threw a Molotov cocktail from outside the house at a window.

2) You physically picks up a baby, put it in the oven, and then turn it on, while you hear the baby scream, you cheer.

Do you see what I am trying to tell you?

Trying to draw a moral equivalence here shows your moral compass is broken.

Another thing to note is that settlers are not the IDF, again you need to draw a distinction here.