New War In Israel / Gaza

[PurpleTree]

 

[Lila9]

16 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I think the women won't be punished because of the fairly naive situation.

But yes this is a problem Gazans face and they are so scared to tell authentic feeling against hamas especially in public, but there are such voices in the last days starting to appear.

There was a common post on social media with a photo of an Israeli soldier talking to an elderly Palestinian man and another photo of his dead body claiming according to Hamas that the Israeli solider shoot him right after the photo was taken (even though the shirt on his dead body was different from the shirt shown on the photo with the solider).

This man was killed by Hamas a day or two after the photo with the solider was taken. He was killed because of his innocent convo with the Israeli solider (which probably asked him how he is etc) was interpreted by Hamas as "cooperation with Israel". It seems pretty dangerous to either say something wrong about Hamas and looking friendly with Israeli soliders. 

33 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Happy 4th candle🕯

🌞🙌

11 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

I believe the majority of Israel dislike Netanyahu.

It's not unique to the radical leftists in the video who are adding their leftist agenda.

They believe they are awake but some would argue they are deep in their sleep.

[Nivsch]

16 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There was a common post on social media with a photo of an Israeli soldier talking to an elderly Palestinian man and another photo of his dead body claiming according to Hamas that the Israeli solider shoot him right after the photo was taken (even though the shirt on his dead body was different from the shirt shown on the photo with the solider).

This man was killed by Hamas a day or two after the photo with the solider was taken. He was killed because of his innocent convo with the Israeli solider (which probably asked him how he is etc) was interpreted by Hamas as "cooperation with Israel". It seems pretty dangerous to either say something wrong about Hamas and looking friendly with Israeli soliders. 

Omg

They lie as often as they breath.

Their propaganda is anything but innocent.

But Israel is too far behind in its ability to fill the gap and exposing those lies. This is frustrating.

I edited the message before you saw it 😶‍🌫️ I asked from where are you?

Edited December 10, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

11 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Omg

They lie as often as they breath.

Their propaganda is anything but innocent.

But Israel is too far behind in its ability to fill the gap and exposing those lies. This is frustrating.

I edited the message before you saw it 😶‍🌫️ I asked from where are you?

Usually I don't feel comfortable to say where I am from because I'm a private person in general and I try to keep this is vague as possible.

But since you are asking me directly and I can't lie to you, I'm actually an Israeli, live in Israel, I served in the Israeli army a few years ago and I still can vividly remember the 2006 Lebanon war when I was a child and Hezbollah bombed us.

This is why I so passionate about the subject, because I speak from my perspective as an Israeli, same as you are. 

 

 

 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Usually I don't feel comfortable to say where I am from because I'm a private person in general and I try to keep this is vague as possible.

I can really understand. All good.

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

But since you are asking me directly and I can't lie to you, I'm actually an Israeli, live in Israel, I served in the Israeli army a few years ago and I still can vividly remember the 2006 Lebanon war when I was a child and Hezbollah bombed us.

This is why I so passionate about the subject, because I speak from my perspective as an Israeli, same as you are. 

From the name I guess you are an Israeli arab?

And nice to hear.

I am also Israeli from birth. This is so amazing to see how much differently Israel society is grasped abroad than the reality I live in here. not gonna lie too this is not easy.

[eos_nyxia]

I’ve been observing this thread for a while.

For these conversations, it would be convenient if there was a sidebar or some indicator of people’s backgrounds which makes their skin in the game obvious. For example:

1. Are your spouse, children, and friends Israeli or Palestinian? Are you Israeli or Palestinian, or more aligned with one side or the other due to shared cultural or religious reasons?
2. Did you have formative experiences with either group which intrinsically predisposes you toward taking one side or the other?
3. What sort of educational system and values were you exposed to as a minor, or even in higher education?
4. Where did your set of geopolitical biases come from, and as a result of what formative factors?
5. Who are you most loyal to, basically, and who and what will you bend for? (As one way or another, people tend to wrap their logic around their feels first in order to dress up their convictions, and not the other way around. “Logic” or “facts” is not much of a frame or skeleton for anything.)

It would save other people some time and energy figuring out if people are dropping “facts” while also actually being able to have a good-faith conversation, if it is somehow not already obvious from the way people speak. (Mostly it is obvious, IMO.)

It would also make it easier for people to have meta-conversations about what all of this means.

[Karmadhi]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can find interview with Hamas spokesperson who says they will keep repeating more terrorist attacks until they elimimate Israel. This is their official position

And how exactly is carpet bombing civilians where more than 90% killed are civilians , creating a humanitarian disaster and collective punishment a solution to the problem you said?

Nobody says Israel should not take out Hamas, most of the world including many Arab countries do not support them.

The issue is that they are going around it in the worst possible way to the point where it is just an excuse to beat Palestinians into submission so they never dare to rise again. Such war tactics, although used in the past are quite barbaric by modern morality and should not be endorsed. 

Israel could have easily tried to do precise strikes but it did not even bother.

Since you used a Hamas chart, Israel IDF said "We are aiming for destruction not accuracy".

There are videos of Israeli officials saying "turn Gaza into Dresden" or "nuke gaza". How exactly are these statements any more evolved than Hamas charter?

Many elements in Israeli government are stage blue fanatics.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Lila9]

43 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

From the name I guess you are an Israeli arab?

And nice to hear.

I am also Israeli from birth. This is so amazing to see how much differently Israel society is grasped abroad than the reality I live in here. not gonna lie too this is not easy.

Thank you 😍

I agree, it's difficult to see so many bs spread around about Israel from people who have never spend a day in their lives here and don't know where Israel is on the map.

I'm Jewish (from a Russian and Asian origin, my parents immigrated from the Soviet Union because they faced antisemitism and life threats) but there are many Arabs where I live as I live in an area of Jews, Christians and Muslims. They are my neighbors, friends, colleagues. 

I have a female Christian Arab friend who is married to a Jewish man. I have a Jewish female friend who is married to a Christian Arab man. They celebrate both Christian and Jewish holidays.

I have religious and non religious female Muslim friends who I've learned a lot from and I know a bit Arabic thanks to them. I taught them some Russian, they love the Russian language.

I have the sweetest Muslim religious friend, Muna, (who I can talk about forever) which wanted her husband to take her, me and her daughter to Jenin (In the West Bank as you know) to do shopping because everything is much cheaper there than in Israel. But her husband was concerned about my safety there and he honestly said that maybe it's not a good idea for me to be there as it puts me at risk because I'm Jewish. 

I can keep and tell about my life in Israel, about the colorfulness, the warmth of people here, the diversity in cultures and sub cultures, the love of animals, the humor, and my experience from everyone and every city here, I can talk about the things people don't hear in the mainstream media all the pros and cons, but it's going to be soooo long. So I would stop here.

This is my very reality, that's why I find it laughble when people say Israel is an Apartheid.

To say that everything is perfect? Not, there are Arabs who identify themselves as Palestinians or both as Israeli and Palestinians, it varies and it's fine. There are also a few problems in the Arab community, especially the Muslim, lots of crimes and curropted leadership which is a known problem in Israel, as you know.

Most of the Arabs I know take the Israeli side and feel angry and sad when there are news about some terror attacks done by Hamas.

Because Hamas doesn't discriminate between Israeli Arabs and Jews, Hamas have killed and kidnapped Israeli Arabs as well, that's why some of the Israeli Arabs serve in the army, because they understand that we are all in the same danger.

I personally know a few people who were killed by terror attacks, one of them was a boy from my class who was stabbed to death in a bus, during his sleep by a young Palestinian from the WB, this was a bus that I used very often at that time.

 

 

[Karmadhi]

@Lila9 @Nivsch

Can you please see these two clips and give me an Israeli pov

I found them extremely disturbing. The second one is from an ex IDF general.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0fz_MxOZET/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0dy5xANB3f/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

 

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Lila9 @Nivsch

Can you please see these two clips and give me an Israeli pov

I found them extremely disturbing. The second one is from an ex IDF general.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0fz_MxOZET/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0dy5xANB3f/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

 

First clip- It can be that the entire building contains terrorists/weapons, there is no contradiction. The Free Palestine statement at the end is awkward given it's calling for ethnical cleansing.

Second clip- Just another Jewish American who is anti Israel. 

And being a son of some Israeli general somewhere in the 6-days war isn't enough experience to claim what he claims. 

If you want a better perspective on both Hamas and IDF you should read the book "Son of Hamas" or watch the interview in my signature, this man worked both for Hamas and IDF, he has more experience and better perspective on the conflict.

 

 

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi Not going to respond to the second toxic laughable link. An attempt to draw symmetry between barbaric dark medieval organization and a self deffense operation cannot be taken seriously.

About the first one I admit there are very likely problems in the surgicality claims that although I believe IDF is the maybe most surgical army in the world, is still not really totally surgical and sometimes attacks too loosely.

In the other hand, we have to ask ourselves honestly if we could really do a more surgical war when needed to eliminate a terror organization that hides so manipulatively behind civilians as its number one survival strategy when we have tens of thousands of terror targets to attack! Not sure if we really could do it otherwise. Just think about that for yourself!

@Lila9 I want to read once again what you wrote and to respond tommorow in length. I must go to sleep right now I really tired.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

@Nivsch Lol that's fine. I wrote too much. Good night!

[Karmadhi]

9 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It can be that the entire building contains terrorists/weapons, there is no contradiction

Then how come 90 percent plus are civilians? If a building is mostly terrorists the ratio would be more even. Wepons being there is not an excuse to kill kids sorry. Still a war crime.

[Nivsch]

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

@Nivsch Lol that's fine. I wrote too much. Good night!

Actually it was interesting to read!

Tommorow I will read it again fresh.

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Then how come 90 percent plus are civilians? If a building is mostly terrorists the ratio would be more even. Wepons being there is not an excuse to kill kids sorry. Still a war crime.

I am not surprised from the answer (;

Wrote you also above.

Good night.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

Then how come 90 percent plus are civilians? If a building is mostly terrorists the ratio would be more even. Wepons being there is not an excuse to kill kids sorry. Still a war crime.

The thing is that these buildings shown in the video are very likely were empty of people because people evacuated. They were bombed to allow IDF to navigate in Gaza more easily as Gaza is very dense.

[Vrubel]

54 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Thank you 😍

I agree, it's difficult to see so many bs spread around about Israel from people who have never spend a day in their lives here and don't know where Israel is on the map.

I'm Jewish (from a Russian and Asian origin, my parents immigrated from the Soviet Union because they faced antisemitism and life threats) but there are many Arabs where I live as I live in an area of Jews, Christians and Muslims. They are my neighbors, friends, colleagues. 

I have a female Christian Arab friend who is married to a Jewish man. I have a Jewish female friend who is married to a Christian Arab man. They celebrate both Christian and Jewish holidays.

I have religious and non religious female Muslim friends who I've learned a lot from and I know a bit Arabic thanks to them. I taught them some Russian, they love the Russian language.

I have the sweetest Muslim religious friend, Muna, (who I can talk about forever) which wanted her husband to take her, me and her daughter to Jenin (In the West Bank as you know) to do shopping because everything is much cheaper there than in Israel. But her husband was concerned about my safety there and he honestly said that maybe it's not a good idea for me to be there as it puts me at risk because I'm Jewish. 

I can keep and tell about my life in Israel, about the colorfulness, the warmth of people here, the diversity in cultures and sub cultures, the love of animals, the humor, and my experience from everyone and every city here, I can talk about the things people don't hear in the mainstream media all the pros and cons, but it's going to be soooo long. So I would stop here.

This is my very reality, that's why I find it laughble when people say Israel is an Apartheid.

To say that everything is perfect? Not, there are Arabs who identify themselves as Palestinians or both as Israeli and Palestinians, it varies and it's fine. There are also a few problems in the Arab community, especially the Muslim, lots of crimes and curropted leadership which is a known problem in Israel, as you know.

Most of the Arabs I know take the Israeli side and feel angry and sad when there are news about some terror attacks done by Hamas.

Because Hamas doesn't discriminate between Israeli Arabs and Jews, Hamas have killed and kidnapped Israeli Arabs as well, that's why some of the Israeli Arabs serve in the army, because they understand that we are all in the same danger.

I personally know a few people who were killed by terror attacks, one of them was a boy from my class who was stabbed to death in a bus, during his sleep by a young Palestinian from the WB, this was a bus that I used very often at that time.

 

 

Cool! I also have a Russian Jewish background. I found this inspiring:
 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Vrubel

[Lila9]

14 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Cool! I also have a Russian Jewish background. I found this inspiring:
 

 

Good to know 🥰

Wow I didn't know that Galkin and his wife Pugacheva are in Israel.

He speaks words of wisdom, it's so comforting given the situation.

 

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

An attempt to draw symmetry between barbaric dark medieval organization and a self deffense operation cannot be taken seriously.

Palestine has also right to defend itself. What Hamas did is not even 1/10 of the collective trauma Palestine has suffered under Israel. 

How come a war crime is only "horrible" when Hamas does it. It may be so bad to you because you are from there, I get it. However if you want to be objective such massacres are very common in wars.

I honestly do not know why Israel expects the rest of us to care more about this specific massacre? Russia also did a similar massacre in Bucha against Ukraine. So did Israel with carpet bombing refugee camps. 

600 or something civilian's dead, mostly adults compared to 7000 childreen dead so far.

Why should we care more about those 600? 

Especially considering the enormous amount of lies about the massacre like 40 beheaded babies?

And if you want to talk hostages, Israel has thousands of childreen and women in prisons which has arbritary arrested and imprisoned under inhumane conditions for things as silly as throwing stones at soldiers. Again, when 200 Israelis get taken hostage you loose your shit when Israel has taken 20x more through the years in West Bank.

I expect Israel to react like this because it is their people and I do not blame them but why should the rest of us care more about you, especially considering you are the aggressors in the first place. And yes this started decades ago. It is an ongoing thing. What you are doing is like taking the bombing of Dresden which was indeed a terrible war crime and saying "Germany is the victim poor them", ignoring all the massacres and aggression they started in the first place.

In the eyes of most of the world Israel started this by colonizing the native population living there. If they knew their place and stayed within the UN borders this would be a different situation. How come Palestinians are pushed all the way to Gaza? You realize most of its population are refugees created by Israel. And Israel is the victim? The current border of Israel is way bigger than the UN agreed border of 1947. ALL of that land difference is pure theft.

Einstein, a Jew, was wise enough to understand why this was a bad idea. 

I know this cannot be realistically undone anymore but at least stop acting like the victims when the chickens come home to roast.

When the Russians were murdering and raping German civilians in Berlin the world did not see Germany as the victims.

Neither were the Japanese seen as the victims when Hiroshima was nuked.

The world not seeing Israel as the victim here either,  is proof of what I am saying.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I agree, it's difficult to see so many bs spread around about Israel from people who have never spend a day in their lives here and don't know where Israel is on the map.

This is just amazing .

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I have a female Christian Arab friend who is married to a Jewish man. I have a Jewish female friend who is married to a Christian Arab man. They celebrate both Christian and Jewish holidays.

They have hanukkah and christmas at the same month?? Dreamyy 🎄🎁

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I have religious and non religious female Muslim friends who I've learned a lot from and I know a bit Arabic thanks to them. I taught them some Russian, they love the Russian language.

You are the most multicultural family and friends I have heard like really.

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I have the sweetest Muslim religious friend, Muna, (who I can talk about forever) which wanted her husband to take her, me and her daughter to Jenin (In the West Bank as you know) to do shopping because everything is much cheaper there than in Israel. But her husband was concerned about my safety there and he honestly said that maybe it's not a good idea for me to be there as it puts me at risk because I'm Jewish. 

understandable.

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I can keep and tell about my life in Israel, about the colorfulness, the warmth of people here, the diversity in cultures and sub cultures, the love of animals, the humor, and my experience from everyone and every city here, I can talk about the things people don't hear in the mainstream media all the pros and cons, but it's going to be soooo long. So I would stop here.

Me too.

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This is my very reality, that's why I find it laughble when people say Israel is an Apartheid.

🤣🤣😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Most of the Arabs I know take the Israeli side and feel angry and sad when there are news about some terror attacks done by Hamas.

True I know that too.

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Because Hamas doesn't discriminate between Israeli Arabs and Jews, Hamas have killed and kidnapped Israeli Arabs as well, that's why some of the Israeli Arabs serve in the army, because they understand that we are all in the same danger.

Absolutely.

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I personally know a few people who were killed by terror attacks, one of them was a boy from my class who was stabbed to death in a bus, during his sleep by a young Palestinian from the WB, this was a bus that I used very often at that time.

Sorry to hear how did it affected you?

Just an hour ago I heard that a guy I know from age 8 (was one grade above me) was killed in Gaza operation. Shocking.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Nivsch