New War In Israel / Gaza

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

Hamas is enjoying widespread support among Palestinians, both in Gaza and the West Bank. When Israel withdraws from Gaza, they will simply re-elect Hamas. And if any elections ever take place in the West Bank, Hamas will rule it also. This war has guaranteed Israel will never be safe, since the Palestinians now want Hamas more than ever. 

Idk if thats true but after what Israel has done since Oct 7th I would imagine that they want even more revenge than they did before. You know theres something called cause and effect 

[Twentyfirst]

53 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Gaza a week before the war. Now a civilization gone with the wind. Because why choose life when you can kill Jews? 



 

Jews are the thousand year victims here. Nazis, being expelled from land many times, having enemies everywhere. Why does everyone apparently choose killing Jews over life? You tell us 

[Vrubel]

20 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Jews are the thousand year victims here. Nazis, being expelled from land many times, having enemies everywhere. Why does everyone apparently choose killing Jews over life? You tell us 

What about you study that history yourself instead of using anti-semitic dog whistles.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Vrubel

[Twentyfirst]

7 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What about you study that history yourself instead of using anti-semitic dog whistles.

So if I question why Hitler hated Jews so much and why Jews have never been able to maintain their own state before (now the only way they can do it is through force) and were basically homeless wandering the Earth for centuries I am anti semitic? Even though thats the first question that would pop into anyones head? The second question that pops into my head is why can't I question these things without being called a Jew hater? 

[Vrubel]

@Twentyfirst Dude, you write so incoherently and "out there" that I can barely understand you. If you have historical questions you can study it in depth or ask chatgpt or something. Nobody is hiding anything from you, the topics of Jewish history and anti-semitism have been widely researched. 

I didn't call you anti-Semitic (I don't know you or care to know you), I pointed out that you suggested a very common anti-Semitic dog whistle used by the extreme right. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Vrubel

[Twentyfirst]

27 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Twentyfirst Dude, you write so incoherently and "out there" that I can barely understand you. If you have historical questions you can study it in depth or ask chatgpt or something. Nobody is hiding anything from you, the topics of Jewish history and anti-semitism have been widely researched. 

I didn't call you anti-Semitic (I don't know you or care to know you), I pointed out that you suggested a very common anti-Semitic dog whistle used by the extreme right. 

Can't trust history when it comes to Jews  

[kenway]

 

[Danioover9000]

@Twentyfirst

7 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Islam is the problem in the Middle East! Not zionism that literally says that only Jews can live in a specific area and everyone else has to die horribly! Don't pay attention to Zionism. Instead pay attention to Islam which is similar to Judaism and Christianity! 

 

   Of course! Islam is the problem in the Middle East, not the demon worshipping pagans that existed before Islam! Clearly Zionism are angels that proclaim only god's chosen people can live in Judea, and Jerusalem, and nobody else! Easily other religions like Christianity and Islam, even Hinduism and Buddhism have indoctrination tactics in their scriptures, but not the Torah in Judaism! Every religion out there deluded and trying to convert people by texting, but not Zionists proclaiming they are god's chosen people!

   And NetanYahu is the new yahoo!

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twentyfirst

   Of course! Islam is the problem in the Middle East, not the demon worshipping pagans that existed before Islam! Clearly Zionism are angels that proclaim only god's chosen people can live in Judea, and Jerusalem, and nobody else! Easily other religions like Christianity and Islam, even Hinduism and Buddhism have indoctrination tactics in their scriptures, but not the Torah in Judaism! Every religion out there deluded and trying to convert people by texting, but not Zionists proclaiming they are god's chosen people!

   And NetanYahu is the new yahoo!

Taoism ftw!!

If you can talk about it it isn't true  

 

[Danioover9000]

@Twentyfirst

5 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Taoism ftw!!

If you can talk about it it isn't true  

 

   NAH! Taoism is warm and cool, but Imma project Kanshou and Bakuya, way cooler. Peace through archery!

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Danioover9000

[kenway]

 

Excellent Finkelstein Update

[lina]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:41 PM, zazen said:

To then engage in negotiations regarding the land they seized from that group, determining how much they will claim and then gaslighting any resistance as barbaric savage terrorism and making them feel guilty for the sins of the Holocaust which weren't theirs to begin with. They are then further gaslighted and labeled anti-Semitic for this when they themselves are semites. The anti-Semitic label is used as a verbal shield against any criticism and to muzzle rational voices. 

The actual crime that Palestinians are being punished for is refusal to submit. That’s all this conflict has ever been, from the very beginning. Palestinians refused to accept being thrown off their land and killed and forcibly displaced at the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, and that refusal has seen increasing violence and oppression under the premise that it’s possible to bomb and tyrannize a population into obedience.
Nothing will radicalize you toward violence faster than seeing your neighbors and loved ones ripped apart, and your dignity shredded on your own soil.
How dare the Palestinians resist, the Palestinians should just be peaceful in their blockaded strip of land where they were once given a controlled amount of calories as to be fed just enough to not die but not in excess as to be strong to resist. And the other Palestinians in West Bank should be at peace with the encroachment of their land via settlement expansion.

That right there summarizes the whole thing. It's really bewildering., like what in the WORLD made early Zionists think whoever was living in that region would easily submit to having their lands taken away? It really seems one of the two things: 1. They were looking for trouble, which I don't think was the case, or 2. They considered Palestinians less human to them so they felt entitled to getting rid of them while expecting no resistance in return. All those years, and they still can't fathom why Palestinians insist on resisting. 

Another point, a lot blame Hamas for endangering Palestinian lives because they insist on resisting a much stronger military, which is understandable, but why nobody is blaming early Zionists for endangering Jewish and Israelis lives, some of whom were already fleeing danger and just decided to invite them to go to a stolen land, which would 100 % guaranteed to endanger their lives for years to come? 

[Vrubel]

13 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Can't trust history when it comes to Jews  

Haha, this is exactly the mentality of most of the people here. God forbid we study history and learn to understand. God forbid we fill our heads with knowledge and insights, that shit can lead to scary places like maybe finding out that Zionism isn't evil but actually highly understandable, necessary and good. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Vrubel

[Twentyfirst]

44 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Haha, this is exactly the mentality of most of the people here. God forbid we study history and learn to understand. God forbid we fill our heads with knowledge and insights, that shit can lead to scary places like maybe finding out that Zionism isn't evil but actually highly understandable, necessary and good. 

Yet you can't explain it yourself. Why would I study the history when you can just tell me. Btw the history doesn't matter if most Jews have a skewed interpretation of their own history and use that distortion to act out atrocities. It would be more important to understand the distortion because thats what we are dealing with 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[Nivsch]

Edited December 6, 2023 by Nivsch

[danniel]

@Vrubel  but how will it be achieved? The true purpose of Zionism? I genuinely wish to understand. Does it means Zionists want a land in map known as "Greater Israel"?

If this is the case (correct me if I am wrong) would it mean, the next lands needed to reach that goal would be entire Lebanon and/or half of Iraq?

[Danioover9000]

@kenway

13 hours ago, kenway said:

 

Excellent Finkelstein Update

    Very nice share, such a reasonable take on this whole situation, wish more people are like him.

[Nivsch]

48 minutes ago, danniel said:

@Vrubel  Does it means Zionists want a land in map known as "Greater Israel"?

No.

Hell no.

Have never heard about this desire here in Israel.

There are people who want all the west bank and part of gaza strip and they are Ben Gvir's party in the far right-wing and maybe one more party to the at most.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

7 hours ago, lina said:

That right there summarizes the whole thing. It's really bewildering., like what in the WORLD made early Zionists think whoever was living in that region would easily submit to having their lands taken away? It really seems one of the two things: 1. They were looking for trouble, which I don't think was the case, or 2. They considered Palestinians less human to them so they felt entitled to getting rid of them while expecting no resistance in return. All those years, and they still can't fathom why Palestinians insist on resisting. 

Another point, a lot blame Hamas for endangering Palestinian lives because they insist on resisting a much stronger military, which is understandable, but why nobody is blaming early Zionists for endangering Jewish and Israelis lives, some of whom were already fleeing danger and just decided to invite them to go to a stolen land, which would 100 % guaranteed to endanger their lives for years to come? 

 

@lina True, why is it shocking that people resist? Over intellectualising and using spiral dynamic labels to paintball and colour code groups of people can trap us in making us think resistance is unique to a stage of development. People resist - their strategy, tactics and how they resist differ but they resist nonetheless.

When we get back to basics of survival humans are more alike than they are different - differences in ideaology, lifestyle and tastes appear once people have enough prosperity and peace to indulge them. A family in the same house can differ vastly in their diets, media and ideas they have. But put them or even a collection of different people of different backgrounds and stages of development under Palestinian or Gazan type living conditions and they will come together to be preoccupied with trying to resist their shared oppression despite their differences because that’s just a human thing to do, not a less developed or stage red thing lol. The same way Israeli society have come together for the time being after October 7th for security reasons.

Western countries are debating and complaining about an influx of immigration today. So we can imagine similar tensions with an influx of Jewish migration into Palestine which was majority Arab. What could have amplified it is the Balfour declaration being announced by the global power at the time which the Arabs felt threatened by and the subsequent state of Israel being realised.

 

Also a nuance that matters is what type or strand of Zionism people are talking about. One can easily support the right of a persecuted people to have a safe haven for themselves, but that support stops when it comes at the cost of displacing and persecuting people already existing there only to continue the cycle. You can support the sentiment but disapprove of the strategy in achieving it or in simpler terms understand the why but dismiss the how.

[danniel]

@Nivsch

i want to ask your view on few  aspects in this conflict. If Hamas is hiding in hospitals, why bomb a convoy of ambulances? Or shoot kids who are trying to hide, and i especially mean this video which is on X, where a 13/14 kid is dragging his brothers' corpse, who was shot while trying to flee

or another incident where infants were left to die in hospital?

or kids bombed who were collecting water from the sea? 

Palestinian civilians being told to evacuate to Southern part of Gaza, and then Israel bombing the southern part?(this happened 1 day ago or so) info given by a journalist reporting in Gaza on IG

and lastly, view on Israel cutting off internet connections at night in southern Gaza, and when it is daylight, entire neighborhoods are bombed, where civilians were asked to move to.

 i did not knew much about this conflict before, but as more and more coverage is shown on, these decisions, like bombing block by block of a land and then leaders claiming that that land would be turned into football fields/ parking lots.

 is spilling of blood of kids and women justified? and if no, why take actions that would deny any sort of aid, food supplies, etc? what thing there is with humanitarian aid which is being sent why United Nations bodies, which is being stopped at Egyptian border by Israeli Govt. that would provide atleast basic medication for the injured?

personally this seems less than removing terrorist group, and more like ethnic cleansing now