New War In Israel / Gaza

[lina]

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

In this area, and I emphasize in THIS area, losing the Jew majority is a very dangerous thing to our values and character of the country that otherwise will be turned into another arab tyranni.

A lot of the Arab tyrannical regimes are funded and supported by western powers to thwart any real democracy to secure the western interests and protect Israel. That's another reason why some Arabs don't like Israel, because they know as long as Israel in the region, any attempts for break off dictatorships will be manipulated to place a puppet who follows the west. It's not just the west, Russia is also guilty for doing the same in other Arab countries. 

In other words, for a nation to remain secure, other nations are forced into oppression. So it's expected for those oppressed people to resent whoever caused the oppression. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by lina

[Lila9]

8 hours ago, DawnC said:

Before 7/10, Israelis genuinely thought they could make Hamas more moderate through these measures and prevent war. This approach failed miserably. It represents a significant misunderstanding of different mentalities. Essentially, it is rooted in the belief that everyone is the same in the sense that they want what you want, because we are all human. Yes, we are. So was Hitler. But you couldn't make the situation with Hitler better by improving Germany conditions.

Absolutely. This is a flaw in the western liberal thinking, that if we only pour money and let them the freedom, they will become decent human beings and everything will be good and peace and sunshine.

This is no naive, I couldn't stress enough how naive this. This is the attitude Israel had all this time and the fact that it led Israel to the October 7 attack only proves that the more Israel support Palestine, the more dangerous it will become to Israel.

People ignore the factor of ideology and stage of development.

Toxic ideology is toxic ideology is toxic ideology which can be created in good or bad conditions but thrives in good conditions in particular.

You can't really effectively negotiate and create peace with people whose ideology is to kill all of you.

There is a ceasefire but Hamas committed terror attack in Jerusalem today, Israelies have been murdered.

Again. 

As people say, if Israel will put down its weapons, there will no be Israel.

If Palestinians will put down their weapons, there will be peace.

 

 

[Buck Edwards]

49 minutes ago, lina said:

A lot of the Arab tyrannical regimes are funded and supported by western powers to thwart any real democracy to secure the western interests and protect Israel. That's another reason why some Arabs don't like Israel, because they know as long as Israel in the region, any attempts for break off dictatorships will be manipulated to place a puppet who follows the west. It's not just the west, Russia is also guilty for doing the same in other Arab countries. 

In other words, for a nation to remain secure, other nations are forced into oppression. So it's expected for those oppressed people to resent whoever caused the oppression. 

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But again, without Jew majority our democracy and values will collapse and we will turn into another arab country.

I don't completely buy into that. I think If you wanted a Democracy you could that anytime. I think living under a tyrannical is worse than living under a puppet. 

That's some bullshit convoluted justification because we know first hand that most Muslim countries are very stage red, just look at the people and how they talk. The mosques are full of brainwashing stuff in britain. Even in debates they support Muslim ideology very proudly. So that's pure BS. 

I agree that Palestinians need support and genocide is inhuman but I'm not gonna buy that the Middle East is developed. That's not on any western country. Development always lies squarely in people's hands. 

In fact the reverse might be true. It's these blood sucking tyrannical governments that are holding back any substantial developments. So erect a democracy. 

 

[lina]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I think If you wanted a Democracy you could that anytime. 

During the Arab spring plenty of countries tried to but ended up hijacked by external powers. Secular moderate leaders are actively persecuted and imprisoned by dictators which kills the chance for any development. 

10 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

 Development always lies squarely in people's hands. 

Yes and no, but for collective development if you live under a dictator government that doesn't spend on education or health with poor economy it's very difficult to for most to evolve. 

[Lila9]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Hamas published footage of the release of the israeli & thai hostages.     The Hamas hosts and some of the hostages warmly embrace each other before parting.

 

They receive orders from Hamas in English to keep waiving and smiling, there are footages where we can clearly hear the orders. The hostages follow it because they are in fear and still have the mindset that they are at the mercy of their kidnappers, their body language screams that they want to get out of there as fast as they can.

It's all a cynical staged game of Hamas, a reality show for the mass where the villain tries to portray themselves as the good guy to the audience at home.

 

 

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, lina said:

During the Arab spring plenty of countries tried to but ended up hijacked by external powers. Secular moderate leaders are actively persecuted and imprisoned by dictators which kills the chance for any development. 

And... These dictators are Muslim. So don't put that on the west. First develop the people. Everything cannot be the fault of the white man lol. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[lina]

13 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

And... These dictators are Muslim. So don't put that on the west. First develop the people. Everything cannot be the fault of the white man lol. 

I don't think you're very familiar with middle eastern politics. I am not talking about Islamist dictators, I am talking about military dictatorships that were literally placed by external powers. For example Egypt's dictator El-Sisi was funded by Saudi Arabia, UAE and USA. Western and eastern govs should stop supporting dictatorships so people can develop. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by lina

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, lina said:

I don't think you're very familiar with middle eastern politics. I am not talking about Islamist dictators, I am talking about military dictatorships that were literally placed by external powers. For example Egypt's dictator El-Sisi was funded by Saudi Arabia and USA. Western and eastern govs should stop supporting dictatorships so people can develop. 

And I guess that's why Saddam Hussein was killed. Because the west wanted dictatorship so badly. 

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, lina said:

During the Arab spring plenty of countries tried to but ended up hijacked by external powers. 

A lot by islamists and cultural tribal stuff

islam is holding the middle east back a lot

Edited November 30, 2023 by PurpleTree

[lina]

7 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

And I guess that's why Saddam Hussein was killed. Because the west wanted dictatorship so badly. 

I think you're conflating here. 

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

islam is holding the middle east back a lot

maybe but military dictatorship is no better because it prevents any development.  

[Lila9]

This former Hamas member proves how far a person can go when abandoning a toxic ideology.

People often blame Israel for the conflict, yet they don't hold Palestinians accountable for their toxic mindset, which they tightly cling to, fueling the conflict.

If Palestinians were at a stage where they challenge and question their toxic ideology, we could discuss two states, one state, or any negotiation.

It's essentially up to Palestinians and Hamas to wake up and rise above this mentality; Israel can do little in this regard.

Attempting to awaken Palestinians and Hamas by pouring money and allowing more freedom is like trying to awaken Donald Trump or Andrew Tate in a similar manner—it would only cause more harm than good.

 

[StarStruck]

11 hours ago, Raze said:

 

Israel has lost the war but they are not even aware of it. 

[Bobby_2021]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

😂😂

I stopped commenting on the war after I looked into it. It's far more complicated than what meets the eye.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[kenway]

30 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I stopped commenting on the war after I looked into it. It's far more complicated than what meets the eye.

 

It's not as complicated as you might think. One of the principal problems is that it tends to be obfuscated by layers and layers of deception and propaganda, that to the uninitiated make it seem more complex than it really is. Westerners stand little chance in this regard, because the narrative they are frequently spoon-fed is mostly comprised of illogical garbage, emotional manipulation and doublespeak.

[lina]

2 children got targeted by IDF sniper in the west bank and caught on video

Edited November 30, 2023 by lina

[PurpleTree]

 

[Nivsch]

@lina If its true those soldier/s must be punished severely because this is not any different than terror. These are not our values and I'm sure this is not the norm but an exception happens relatively rarely but still a symptom of a problem, I am not denying that, that must be addressed. Since this is AJ I will only believe it if I see it in more sources and I will try to check.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@lina If its true those soldier/s must be punished severely because this is not any different than terror. These are not our values and I'm sure this is not the norm but an exception happens relatively rarely but still a symptom of a problem, I am not denying that, that must be addressed. Since this is AJ I will only believe it if I see it in more sources and I will try to check.

From what I know, Israeli soliders never target children unless they risk them in some way.

I read that one of the children has carried improvised explosive device in his hand and intended to throw it on the soliders while the other was throwing rocks.

There was an exchange of fire between Hamas terrorists and IDF at this area in the WB and children have taken part in it.

They were sent by their family relative and upon my quick research this familiy relative is a Hamas terrorist.

It's not the first time children are sent by adults with bombs and weapons because they do not arouse suspicion which made IDF to pay a lot of price in soliders and civilians lives.

These children should be at school or at home doing their homework and not being recurred by Hamas to sustain this cycle of terrorism.

Where are all the human rights and children rights organizations? Why they don't do anything to stop children from participating in terror attacks which risking their lives and the lives of others?

The thing is that they are so biased against Israel that they simply ignore it. They never mention that these young people were sent to throw rocks and commit terror and were shot as a defense. They portray this as if the soliders decided to shoot out of no were.

 

 

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

From what I know, Israeli soliders never target children unless they risk them in some way.

I read that one of the children has carried improvised explosive device in his hand and intended to throw it on the soliders while the other was throwing rocks.

There was an exchange of fire between Hamas terrorists and IDF at this area in the WB and children have taken part in it.

They were sent by their family relative and upon my quick research this familiy relative is a Hamas terrorist.

It's not the first time children are sent by adults with bombs and weapons because they do not arouse suspicion which made IDF to pay a lot of price in soliders and civilians lives.

These children should be at school or at home doing their homework and not being recurred by Hamas to sustain this cycle of terrorism.

Where are all the human rights and children rights organizations? Why they don't do anything to stop children from participating in terror attacks which risking their lives and the lives of others?

The thing is that they are so biased against Israel that they simply ignore it. They never mention that these young people were sent to throw rocks and commit terror and were shot as a defense. They portray this as if the soliders decided to shoot out of no were.

 

 

I am absolutely agree, I just think that a 8 year old child can be neutralized in other ways, and if a soldier feels he must shoot because his life is in threat, he can still shoot on the leg or foot. I cannot understand shooting in a child head because this is firstly just wrong in any sense becuase this is a life of a 8 yo child who again can be neutralized quite easily in other ways, and secondly the world doesn't interested in the complex explanations, the damage has already done.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I am absolutely agree, I just think that a 8 year old child can be neutralized in other ways, and if a soldier feels he must shoot because his life is in threat, he can still shoot on the leg or foot. I cannot understand shooting in a child head because this is firstly just wrong in any sense becuase this is a life of a 8 yo child who again can be neutralized quite easily in other ways, and secondly the world doesn't interested in the complex explanations, the damage has already done.

Yes, there can be definitely better ways to neutralize a child rather than directly killing, it's odd.