Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: But again, without Jew majority our democracy and values will collapse and we will turn into another arab country. Yes, well, that is how it works when you build a castle on Arab quicksand. Edited November 29, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Yes, well, that is how it works when you build a castle on Arab quicksand. Yes, then what choice we have? You say it is racist but the other alternative is far worse. BTW muslims and christians have their own countries. Aren't the jews deserve at least one country to make it by their own values? Its not merely a religion game because I doesnt care so much about the religion as I care about the values. But what can we do when in this case the two things are completely overlap! Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Yes, then what choice we have? You guys have made your choice: endless war. Okay. So there you have it. Quote You say it is racist but the other alternative is far worse. Okay. Quote BTW muslins and christians have their own countries. Aren't the jews deserve at leasr one country to make it by their own values? Doesn't a homeless person deserve to have at least one room in your house to decorate to his tastes? Edited November 29, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Yes, well, that is how it works when you build a castle on Arab quicksand. That was the fate of Lebanon. It went from a prosperous Christian country to a dysfunctional Arab one. I am definitely more optimistic for the long run of Israel. For the time being Israel has to remain strong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: You guys have made your choice: endless war. Okay. So there you have it. Okay. Doesn't a homeless person deserve to have a least one room in your house? Sorry I am not in computer now cant quote in parts. I think that holistic attitude will end the wars eventually and graduately but we dont have that kind of leaders right now. But every country started like this. Established in the account of the nearby countries. BTW arab world is a fucking big house of 1km * 1km compared to homeless Jew. Everyone wants a country of their own. So the jews are lost in your opinion? Cannot never have a country? Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: So the jews are lost in your opinion? Cannot never have a country? Jews have a country and it is not going away. So that's not really at issue. The only issue now is how to create peace. I am not saying Israel needs to be abolished. That's completely unworkable at this point. But, for example, Israel could pay money to Palestinians for the land they took. This might help to smooth tensions. The best way to create peace is to invest into the development of Palestine so they have some hope aside from terrorism. At this point they got nothing to live for but to hunt your children. Edited November 29, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: So the jews are lost in your opinion? Cannot never have a country? Ethnostates cannot safely exist in a world where nuclear power exists... especially not ethnostates that are established by modern top-down authorities as opposed to ones that organically coalesced in the past. We exist in a cosmopolitan world where the most developed countries are diverse with many races, religions, and ethnicities functioning as one people. And we have air travel and the internet. People are not living only as one people like in eras past. Israel touts its claim as "the only democracy in the Middle East"... suggesting that it is more developed than the countries surrounding it. But the most developed and civilized democracies are not ethnostates... nor could they be. So Jews have every right to exist and they should be able to exist and live in Israel... and anywhere. But Jews cannot have an ethnostate (nor can Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc.) without creating huge problems for non-Jews living in the ethnostate and creating huge problems geopolitically. Ethnostates are an anachronism and belong in the past. We shouldn't be establishing or supporting ethnostates that in the contemporary era. Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Jews have a country and it is not going away. So that's not really at issue. The only issue now is how to create peace. I am not saying Israel needs to be abolished. That's completely unworkable at this point. But, for example, Israel could pay money to Palestinians for the land they took. This might help to smooth tensions. The best way to create peace is to invest into the development of Palestine so they have some hope aside from terrorism. At this point they got nothing to live for but to hunt your children. Thats why I think Egypt is the healthiest leadership option possible for the Palestinians to develop to the next stage but won't work probably because Egypt doesn't want them. Palestinian authority is better than hamas of course but problematic potentially too. What you suggest with the money is interesting. About the homeless analogy I think this is very different also and mainly because Jews really have valid historical connection to the land and to Jerusalem. Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Every religion! Lol If you believe that you are closest to God, the chosen people, then you will destroy anyone who gets in your way. The logic is perfect. Well. I do believe I am closest to god There is virtually no separation between us It's pretty awesome! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) @Leo Gura Come and visit Israel and Palestine. Just to see how people live and think. I think it will deepen your understanding. Most Palestinians in the West Bank live in decent houses with big gardens, they are not some kind of slaves. Gaza would also be much more open and integrated if it wasn't for Hamas. @Emerald Sounds really nice but still a bit too naive. Also, Israel might be literally the most multicultural country on earth. The issue is with the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians that needs to be resolved. Not with the concept of "ethnostate". Edited November 29, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 Funny how Westerners think the Middle East is bad because theres 1. No democracy 2. Arabs 3. Islam Pretty judgmental. Who says that The West is so great for having democracy, christianity, and whites? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Nivsch said: About the homeless analogy I think this is very different also and mainly because Jews really have valid historical connection to the land and to Jerusalem. So do the egyptians, babylonians, assyrians, romans, christians, muslims, persians etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 49 minutes ago, Nivsch said: But again, without Jew majority our democracy and values will collapse and we will turn into another arab country. Theres many Palestinians around the world are you counting them too? Theres probably 7 million in Gaza/West Bank and another 7 million outside Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said: Funny how Westerners think the Middle East is bad because theres 1. No democracy 2. Arabs 3. Islam Pretty judgmental. Who says that The West is so great for having democracy, christianity, and whites? The West is mostly secular, which already does away with 80% of the bullshit and backwardness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Vrubel said: The West is mostly secular, which already does away with 80% of the bullshit and backwardness. Oh great The West is godless haha how great Oh ya I forgot they made government, entertainment, wokeism, cancel culture, and LGBTQ the new belief systems. Believe or die! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 1:16 AM, Gennadiy1981 said: No that is not said in the Bible, that’s a text out of context. The Messiah will become king and build a temple that is what said in the Bible and (for weak minded people please do not read further) Israel will expand its borders from the river of Egypt (Nile) to the great river Euphrates (Iraq) This was a sketchy post from earlier in the thread This is really how most of them think they just can't admit it too much although they do admit it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) @Emerald OK but practically is it really can work in the middle east to not be an ethnostate when the other ethnic groups are TOO far from your ethnic group values? The pressure gradient between the value systems is just too high to allow ourselves to be sucked into an arab majority nation that would be teocratic with no women and gays rights. So practically maybe we have to be creative here and not to copy the europeen model to here but to create something new, that keeps the Jew majority but in the most moral way possible to the other nations in the country that will get autonomy and full civil and collective rights. Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Nivsch said: About the homeless analogy I think this is very different also and mainly because Jews really have valid historical connection to the land and to Jerusalem. Native Americans have valid historical connection to the land, but that doesn't mean they get to take my house. Edited November 29, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Native Americans have valid historical connection to the land, but that doesn't mean they get to occupy my house. How could Israel as you see it be established here in a different and more moral way? Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Leo Gura said: 47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Jews have a country and it is not going away. So that's not really at issue. The only issue now is how to create peace. I am not saying Israel needs to be abolished. That's completely unworkable at this point. But, for example, Israel could pay money to Palestinians for the land they took. This might help to smooth tensions. The best way to create peace is to invest into the development of Palestine so they have some hope aside from terrorism. At this point they got nothing to live for but to hunt your children. 22 percent of land to the Palestinians isn't enough. Theres more Palestinians than there are Jews plus it's their land. And something about having the West Bank and Gaza not connecting just doesn't sound right to me. Plus the whole thing about turning Gaza with all the homes, schools, and hospitals into a rubble parking lot seems unforgivable Israel could get American tax payer money but Palestinians should demand unlimited amounts of it Sometimes the quoting feature is a pain in ass. Anyone know why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
