New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, kenway said:

in polls where the majority, at the very least, have been calling for immediate ceasefire, in an environment where their leaders cannot even utter the phrase.

Maybe the leadres are just more experienced and mature than the average young protestor and know that ceasefire won't solve anything as long as hamas is in charge on Gaza.

I can agree about the problem with the ever expansion of the settlements in the west bank and if a demonstration talks about this thing sepcifically I can even understand. But rarely this is the real goal of a pro palestinian protest and rarely you will see a protest with that much specific narrative.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

On 25/11/2023 at 0:47 AM, Vrubel said:

You must admit it's not that simple. Notice how the 7/10 attack came from Gaza, a piece of land Israel doesn't control. Hamas is actually more popular in the West Banks but because Israel has the ability to do regular raids there it keeps terrorist activities in check even though it can look ugly at times to outsiders. Obviously, there needs to be a solution. I think two states is the most realistic one but the Palestinian state definitely needs to be demilitarized. This will be a tricky question. Also, any Palestinian country will be very precarious as the population is deeply stage red and I can predict there will be constant altercations amongst themselves and periodic lashing out at Israel even when independent. 

Obviously, there are legitimate and valid ways to be pro-Palestine. I have a lot of respect for Israeli peace activists for example. But those protests we saw in Europe have put a lot of people off because they are very low-brow and horde-like, some were violent others outright supported Hamas. Don't be naive about the extremely low level of intelligence and integrity within these demonstrations. Badly integrated Muslim immigrant communities combined with extreme leftwing people turn the silent majority off, and you can't really blame them for that.

I agree it definitely isn’t that simple. There are toxic elements on both sides. The protests for the most part are positive. I was at the London protest with almost a million people and majority were fair and little to no arrests or violence. There are a few bad apples for sure but that shouldn’t stop people from supporting a just cause to end a conflict that see’s civilians dying.
 

The same way in more right wing protests which are anti-immigration you get completely racist people among them that de-legitimise the whole thing due to their extremism. Marginalisation leads to radicalisation and racism is extreme otherising and marginalisation.

Here’s a good talk between Sam Harris and Yuval Noah Harari. He mentions how a two state solution and peace are undermined from the Israeli side by Bibis government.

Listen to time stamps  ( 13-15 min ) and ( 16:30 - 18:30 ).

In fact by supporting and having a more extremist party like Hamas in power it de-legitimises the Palestinian cause the same way extremist racists de-legitimise the right wing and their valid concerns for unchecked immigration.

Hamas gives a reason to not establish peace or offer a state - and if a state is offered it’s done so with concessions favouring the Isreali side. Hamas is not the target but the excuse.

A good video on why and how Israel offer of a two state solution and any peace hasn’t worked:

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

Its absolutely shaking just the thought what would happen to them and how those kids themselves would manage if they would not release. 

Infinitely ungraspable.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

 

[Jodistrict]

The main interview is with the guest Stanford Pass, who is from a Jewish Background, who describes the real history and current reality of Palestine.  In the beginning of the video are excerpts from a Jewish Rabbi and from a Christian pastor describing Netanyahu.

 

[Lila9]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:32 PM, PurpleTree said:

 

She tried to commit unsuccessful suecidal attack against Jews which left her alive with burned face. Al Jazeera frames it as if she were innocently driving and "suddenly" exploded, what a bs.

And people in the comments support her as if she is some hero for trying to kill Jews or treat her and many other Palestinians prisoned criminals as if they are hostages while all of them are terrorists who killed or tried to kill Jews.

Al Jazeera and its fans are never cease to surprise me with their radical distortion of reality, the antisemitism and hatred of Israel. 

The real hostages are the Israeli kidnapped people including children at the age of less than a year and elderly people more than 70 years old whose only crime was to be born a Jewish in Israel.

What a crazy world. 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Lila9

[Lila9]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-captivity-hid-in-gaza-before-locals-caught-him/0000018c-1121-dd2e-a5ae-d36bfcc40000

This Israeli man has managed to escape Hamas captivity and got lost in Gaza while trying to find the border in order to cross it back to Israel.

Gaza people which treated by the world as separate from Hamas, have seen him and what do you think they did? Did they help him? Did they ignore him?

No, he was handed over to Hamas by the people of Gaza. What is that telling us about the people of Gaza?

[Leo Gura]

Welp, I was wrong about the hostages. Glad they reached a deal.

[Hardkill]

I am glad that they are also extending the deal for at least another couple of days.

[jaylimix]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:20 PM, Nivsch said:

I can agree about the problem with the ever expansion of the settlements in the west bank and if a demonstration talks about this thing sepcifically I can even understand. 

Judea, where its inhabitants were called the Judeans, and later the Jus a.k.a. Jews are indigenous to the land.

Terrorists and their children are occupying Judea and Samaria, not the other way around.

I support the full expansion of Judea Samaria and the arming up of the Jews to protect themselves, against the real occupiers.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-11-06/card/israel-says-its-citizens-are-arming-themselves-IBvXaTCqeYENzVBevDhM

[jaylimix]

@Philipp Yes, I made a tweet about Norman Fink https://x.com/mechanics_watch/status/1729100052021555329?s=20

@Jacob Morres Yes that is what I am advocating for

[kenway]

2 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

@Philipp Yes, I made a tweet about Norman Fink https://x.com/mechanics_watch/status/1729100052021555329?s=20

Finkelstein doesn't live in Israel. He lives in New York.

[jaylimix]

1 minute ago, kenway said:

Finkelstein doesn't live in Israel. He lives in New York.

My bad. I got him mixed up with Gideon Levy (another traitor).

[Vrubel]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Welp, I was wrong about the hostages. Glad they reached a deal.

Yes, the military pressure from the ground invasion definitely played its role. The main benefit for Hamas from this deal is that they broke the IDF momentum and got time to regroup and resupply. There is still a long way to go as they still keep around 150 hostages including women and children. 

I think that when the truce is over, Israel will be able to take over the whole of Gaza City relatively quickly. However, invading the south will be tricky as there are now double the amount of civilians sheltering there. 

Kudos to the IDF for fighting so bravely, even with all the technological advantages at the end of the day it all comes down to basic human bravery and strength of spirit. Putting your life on the line in deadly combat in a dense city environment. Can any spoiled Westerner Imagine being 20, having lost family and friends on 7/10, and now fighting Hamas in Gaza.
 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Vrubel

[kenway]

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Kudos to the IDF for fighting so bravely

 

Good one.

[Vrubel]

Haters gonna hate, I guess.

(Inner) strength is really a core value of mine. I can really appreciate it when I see it. For me, it's inspiring and even motivating. 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Yes, the military pressure from the ground invasion definitely played its role. The main benefit for Hamas from this deal is that they broke the IDF momentum and got time to regroup and resupply. There is still a long way to go as they still keep around 150 hostages including women and children. 

I assumed Hamas was more evil than it is.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I assumed Hamas was more evil than it is.

Do you mean that you see them as less evil now?

I think they didn't hold the hostages alive because of humane reasons (maybe in the micro level, every terrorist can be re-shaped if got to know the other side closely as was with the kidnappers I want to believe it) and after the horrific things they did that are way more than "just" to kill, I really don't want to think about them in any other, way at least not in the macro level, apart of an Isis like organization.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Haters gonna hate, I guess.

(Inner) strength is really a core value of mine. I can really appreciate it when I see it. For me, it's inspiring and even motivating. 

Let alone the fact that many of these soldiers are around age 20 and slightly above. They are half-kids.

[Buck Edwards]

Why are the Israeli hostages looking so relaxed? They don't seem tortured.