Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Twentyfirst said: The why is absurdly obvious to the point where even asking the question is disrespectful Why when the man raped the woman did she fight back? Seeking understanding of a conflict I don’t know well is not inherently disrespectful unless you project that into it. Strawman comparison. Edited November 19, 2023 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Thought Art said: Seeking understanding of a conflict I don’t know well is not inherently disrespectful unless you project that into it. Nice straw man. Whats there to know? There was some stupid people having a festival right next to a prison full of seething people that hate them Would you eat a steak in front of a starving tiger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 @MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI Be careful with your posts. A little maturity goes a long way. "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) @Twentyfirst I’m done talking to you. At least for now. I don’t live anywhere near these countries and I’m unfamiliar with the situation and culture. So, it’s all new to me. Edited November 19, 2023 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Thought Art said: @Twentyfirst I’m done talking to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) @Twentyfirst I have a question about your biases. In an earlier post you'd say something about how "we should treat each how we want to be treated" and that Israel is evil for killing innocent people. But, when Hamas kills innocent people...first... I might add in this particular conflict... Israelis are at fault for being stupid and having a festival next to them. Then, it is Israel who is evil for fighting back. Is a woman evil for fighting back against her rapist? What if both Israel and Gazans see each other as that rapist.. Therefore they are both acting from good intentions? I can see fighting Hamas to keep a country safe. But, killing and raping at random in this context as Hamas did... That is only gonna spread pain and fear. This is where I think, perhaps I need a wider context of the conflict. What Hamas did to me is stage red, but also must be stemming from deep trauma and anger. This quote you share, I don't know what that has to do with this. Edited November 19, 2023 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Thought Art said: @Twentyfirst I have a question about your biases. In an earlier post you'd say something about how "we should treat each how we want to be treated" and that Israel is evil for killing innocent people. But, when Hamas kills innocent people...first... I might add in this particular conflict... Israelis are at fault for being stupid and having a festival next to them. Then, it is Israel who is evil for fighting back. Is a woman evil for fighting back against her rapist? What if both Israel and Gazans see each other as that rapist.. Therefore they are both acting from good intentions? This quote you share, I don't know what that has to do with this. Yes what biases do I have? I haven't said anything promoting violence. The solution I presented doesn't involve bloodshed on either side and I sure as hell didn't call for a genocide like many people on this forum have Hamas didn't kill first. This has been going on for longer than October 7th. Ask your grandparents if they ever heard of this and they may have depending on the media they were consuming back in the day I said don't complain like a victim if the people you are holding hostage decide to kill you. At least take it like a man A woman isn't evil for fighting back against the rapist. Israel IS the rapist The road to hell is paved with good intentions blah blah blah The quote means you should be able to argue my side better than me Edited November 19, 2023 by Twentyfirst Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) @Twentyfirst Oops, why you were replying I added a bit to my above comment. What Solution do you think is right here? What would you like to happen? Edited November 19, 2023 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Thought Art said: @Twentyfirst Oops, why you were replying I added a bit to my above comment. What Solution do you think is right here? What would you like to happen? To what you added. Hamas doesn't exactly represent Palestine. They were elected in 2006. Half of Gaza are children born after the election. Half of Gaza are just children so that alone should ring alarms It makes sense to me that Israelis should leave the land completely and give it back to the Palestinians. If they don't do that then they are asking for bloodshed on both sides. Any other solution will cause death on both sides. So who is outrageous me or anyone calling for anything other than this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 @Twentyfirst Thanks for sharing. I’ll add this to my contemplation. "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Thought Art said: @Twentyfirst Thanks for sharing. I’ll add this to my contemplation. No problem. I just hope to see Israelis wake up to the trouble they have caused. There was peace there before they stormed in making all sorts of insane demands to satisfy their religious delusions. If they leave then everything can go back to normal and neither side has to die anymore By them continuing to live there they are the ones causing all this. Not Palestine or Hamas or Iran To say that another solution is needed will cause more deaths. Why is another solution needed when this one makes complete sense? People need to stop comforting and going along with the delusions of these zionists and just tell them to leave. Stop protecting their feelings by lying to them about whats right or wrong. Its obviously wrong This isn't bias but fairness. If someone came into your house and turned you into a prisoner then I would ask them to leave as well. Even if I didn't like you because its just common sense Edited November 19, 2023 by Twentyfirst Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 One thing I have learned from the tons of social media posts on this subject here and elsewhere is the dedication to self interest and the willingness of either side to justify violence in order to preserve an image of righteousness. With this background, a man of true morality and consistent principles like Norman Finkelstein sticks out like a sore thumb and is very, very rare. Vincit omnia Veritas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Nivsch said: B e a u t i f u l . Edited November 19, 2023 by Lila9 👽 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Lila9 said: B e a u t i f u l . ❤🙏🥰🥲 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) On 18.11.2023 at 3:03 PM, DawnC said: In the better case. In the worst case, it is deliberately lying and deceiving. And now a mother who her daugther is kidnapped in gaza tell she was interviewed by Al Jazeera and they were attacking her for 55 minutes (!) in the interview and even did to her an "ambush" when joined a hamas commander to the interview who demanded her to condemn Israel what made her quit the interview. Its unbelievable how heartless and shameless they are. Edited November 19, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Thought Art said: Then, it is Israel who is evil for fighting back. Is a woman evil for fighting back against her rapist? A woman is not evil for fighting back against her rapist. However, if the woman s behavior's towards the rapist are the main reason that the person became the rapist in the first place then she is also to be blamed. The people killed per say are innocent and I feel bad for them but Israel s policies are the main reason why those people are dead. Israel is just as at fault here as Hamas is. And they do not accept any responsibility for this. They just blame Hamas when they are responsible for Hamas existing in the first place. They got attacked by the monster they themselves created. This is not to be overlooked. When the head of UN says that the attack of Hamas did not happen in a vacuum, instead of accepting their responsability and changing their policies towards Palestinians, they instead ban UN staff from entering and double down on the violence on the West Bank by killing like 150 innocent civilians. Shameless... Edited November 19, 2023 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) @Karmadhi Let me guess that Israel is also to blame in Amin al Husseini nazi-like ideology towards the jews in 1930's even before it was established! Mind blowing. The less developed side has far more fault. Israel's responsibility to the redicalization of the pelstinians exists, but it is only a secondary effect that couldnt happen without the palestinians initial tendency to easily radicalize in certain ways in the first place. The Arabs here were quite radical against the Jews and the idea of a Jewish state (a fraction of them of course) way before 67' and 48'. Edited November 19, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) On 11/19/2023 at 10:55 AM, MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI said: (deleted by mod) So no one else wants to report this comment as radical hate speech? lol Edited November 20, 2023 by UnbornTao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 19, 2023 People who say they're developed because they aren't as tribal as undeveloped people can also be just as tribal - they just re-tribalise around different values. It's possible for people to have stage green talking points and positions whilst having a stage red tribalistic mode of being and disposition. Humans are complex. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
