New War In Israel / Gaza

[Twentyfirst]

"If they're demanding you denounce or declare something, or else. You must not do it, no matter what it is" - James Lindsay 

[MuadDib]

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

He won Nobel peace price because of the Oslo agreement with Rabin but it doesn't remove the fact that he was a founder of Fatah which committed terror crimes mainly in form of suicidal bombers against Israeli civilians since 1965.

Yes, it was the Palestian's attempt at resistance after the Nakba in 1948, in which 15,000 Palestineans were killed and 750,000 were forced from their homes. During that time horrendous acts of violence were committed against them by the Israelis. For example, there is a first-hand account of a baker being made to put his son in an oven, and then he was put in after. These aren't referred to as acts of terror by the Israelis.
 

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel is more Jewish than Arabic, historically and archeologically.

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This is why it's important for Jews to be in Israel and not in other land, so people won't claim they don't belong to there.

You need to make a distinction between the words Arabs and Jews. There are many kinds of Jewish people, some of whom aren't welcome in Israel, for example, Ethiopian Jews because they're black.

 

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If Jews have been settled in Africa, someone would have said they don't belong to Africa. If Jews have been settled in America, someone would have said they don't belong to America. 

I have Jewish relatives and Jewish friends who say Jews don't belong in Israel.
 

 

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Judaism is ok, Zionism is a disaster.

Zionism is a national Jewish movement.

Is Palestinian nationalism acceptable but Jewish not?

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

If they said "we will destroy the concept of the Israeli state but not harm civilians in mass while doing so" then that is ok considering how Israel treated them in decades.

They don't do that because Hamas are not nationalists, if they were they would attack soliders and institutions only and wouldn't do this religious weird "Allah Akbar" gestures.

They are a religious movement first and foremost, they use the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to achieve their radical Islamic vision.

 

 

[Twentyfirst]

Israel has nukes. Big mistake for the world since they are evil or whatever but no biggie 

[Twentyfirst]

You gotta give the devil his due

I guess the holocaust lasted 13 years? And that was before telecommunications was so big and readily available 

Zionists have been managing for 75 years without the world batting an eye. Impressive 

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@hundreth ISIS wanted to do that, an Islamic state. It caused global outrage and they were destroyed.

The rest like UAE, Egypt etc have majority Muslims but they also have religious minorities living there and they are not created for the purpose of being an Islamic state. The difference is the purpose why the country exists.

ISIS s purpose was to be that, an Islamic state and it got destroyed because of it.

I understand the world feels like they "owe" Jews considering how they were treated but Arabs do not owe Jews anything. If there is something like a Zionist state, it should be on the land of countries that actually treated Jews horribly. Like Germany.

However Europeans did not want them so they dumped them in Palestine.

Also Israel where it is, was used as a tool to control the region by the West. As Biden said "If there was no Israel, the US would have to invent an Israel there". Shows that there is much more here than just "Jews should have a homeland there". Lots of interests, both political and economical. Mostly because Arab area has lots of oil.

Before Israel Jews and Muslims lived together in Palestine and all was good.

It's very convenient you didn't mention Iran. Do you know what Iran's official name is? The Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI).

They aren't the only such nation.

Edited November 15, 2023 by hundreth

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@hundreth ISIS wanted to do that, an Islamic state. It caused global outrage and they were destroyed.

The rest like UAE, Egypt etc have majority Muslims but they also have religious minorities living there and they are not created for the purpose of being an Islamic state. The difference is the purpose why the country exists.

ISIS s purpose was to be that, an Islamic state and it got destroyed because of it.

I understand the world feels like they "owe" Jews considering how they were treated but Arabs do not owe Jews anything. If there is something like a Zionist state, it should be on the land of countries that actually treated Jews horribly. Like Germany.

However Europeans did not want them so they dumped them in Palestine.

Also Israel where it is, was used as a tool to control the region by the West. As Biden said "If there was no Israel, the US would have to invent an Israel there". Shows that there is much more here than just "Jews should have a homeland there". Lots of interests, both political and economical. Mostly because Arab area has lots of oil.

Before Israel Jews and Muslims lived together in Palestine and all was good.

At this point the world owes Palestine something just like how they owed Jews something. Same logic 

[hundreth]

Here's another one for @Karmadhi:

Afghanistan alone spans 252,071 sq miles. Iran spans 636,400 square miles of land.

Do you know how much Israel spans? 8,630.

You can fit 73 jewish states inside just the ONE Iranian islamic state. That's just ONE.

 

[Twentyfirst]

“Do not try to bend Israel. That’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no Israel. Then you’ll see that it is not Israel that bends — it is only yourself.”  

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Here's another one for @Karmadhi:

Afghanistan alone spans 252,071 sq miles. Iran spans 636,400 square miles of land.

Do you know how much Israel spans? 8,630.

You can fit 73 jewish states inside just the ONE Iranian islamic state. That's just ONE.

 

Move to Afghanistan then  

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, hundreth said:

Here's another one for @Karmadhi:

Afghanistan alone spans 252,071 sq miles. Iran spans 636,400 square miles of land.

Do you know how much Israel spans? 8,630.

You can fit 73 jewish states inside just the ONE Iranian islamic state. That's just ONE.

There is no doubt in my opinion that the obssession on Israel is not really because of occupation of this and that (only secondary) but the real reason is from the world of psychology, spirituality and spiral dynamics and there is more than just one simple reason. Part of the critism Israel gets is precisely because of the good place from where israel does what it does in a long term and big picture context point of view.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

9 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

 

There is no doubt in my opinion that the obssession on Israel is not really because of occupation of this and that (only secondary) but the real reason is from the world of psychology, spirituality and spiral dynamics and there is more than just one simple reason.

Yes, when you zoom out the whole thing is extremely silly. Israel's closest neighbor, Jordan... was given 4x the land from the same British Palestine and is now 95% muslim population, yet @Karmadhi wants to talk about how these nations are friendly to minorites.

With all the vast real estate these Islamic nations have, they expelled and ethnically cleansed 99.9% of Jews from their lands. Where did they go? ISRAEL. Because of this, it is essentially a non issue and no one is rioting in the streets for expelled Jews. Yet none of these nations have offered to take the Palestinians in. The entire Palestinian population could be easily absorbed by the Arab world. The reason is, it's not about the anguish of the Palestinian people, it's about being a thorn in the side of the one small Jewish state.

[Nivsch]

@hundreth Maybe also all the other nations know from experience that palestinians give hell to anywhere they go to.

Why Egypt is so afraid to let Gazaians in? They know even better than the Israelis.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

33 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@hundreth Maybe also all the other nations know from experience that palestinians give hell to anywhere they go to.

Why Egypt is so afraid to let Gazaians in? They know even better than the Israelis.

Why don't you go to Egypt?

Look up videos of travel YouTubers going to West Bank or just go to Jordan. Palestinians are the MOST hospitable people on the planet HANDS DOWN. I have travelled everywhere from South America to Asia 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Why don't you go to Egypt?

Look up videos of travel YouTubers going to West Bank or just go to Jordan. Palestinians are the MOST hospitable people on the planet HANDS DOWN. I have travelled everywhere from South America to Asia 

I’ve been to west bank

they were mostly nice

but a cab driver was harassing us a bit and trying to drive us further then we wanted for more money

but most hospitable on the earth?

[zazen]

In-fighting at daily wire between Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro.

Interesting to see even Candace speaking out. France, Canada, Belgium and just today Spain's PM ''urged Israel to end the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians”. Narcissism doesn't listen to even its own allies and friends of its flaws.

 

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

It's very convenient you didn't mention Iran. Do you know what Iran's official name is? The Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI).

Iran s current regime is horrible and their citizens are tired of it. Once their leader dies I think there will be another revolution and radical Islam will be removed from power there. The natural order of things where stage blue goes to orange is bound to happen there soon. I do not support Iran, the world would be better if it became a secular country not a radical religious dictatorship like it currently is. People there though are extremely nice and not racist at all. I met many from there. They told me there is around 20% or so which are religious fanatic Mullahs that have the power, the rest are not radicals and actually want to become more Western.

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

wants to talk about how these nations are friendly to minorites

They definetly treat them better than Israel treats Palestinians though. You cannot deny that.

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

they expelled and ethnically cleansed 99.9% of Jews from their lands

According to the author of Sapiens in an interview with Piers Morgan, it was retaliation for the Nakba. Yes it was wrong though. They could not defeat Israel in a war so they kicked out all their Jews as a form of revolt.

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

Yet none of these nations have offered to take the Palestinians in

There are millions of Palestinians abroad. They have the biggest diaspora per capita in the world. Jordan alone has millions of them. 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Afghanistan alone spans 252,071 sq miles

Before the Talebans Afghanistan was not an Islamic State though. And Taleban government which was formed last year is not recognized by almost anyone.  "As of late 2022, no country recognizes them as the lawful government of Afghanistan, however, there has been limited recognition of their de facto governance over the country." So it just proves that Religious based countries are not welcomed in the world.

Iran is also heavily disliked by many including the West. So do not be suprised that Israel is also disliked by many (not the Western governments though).

Edited November 15, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Zionism is a national Jewish movement

It is grounded in Religion. Its equivalent would be Talebans, ISIS or Hamas. An ethno state made of people from X religion and those people have special status. It is cancer on earth. Just like countries like Iran, Taleban Afghanistan etc are.

It is basically the Judaism version of the Islamic Caliphat. 

The concept of the Islamic Caliphat is frowned upon by most countries, do not be suprised that Zionism also gets a ton of hate by ordinary people. Radicalism is not liked.

You have countless people in Israel justifying taking land because "It is given to us by God". This is just as proposterous as stoning a woman for not wearing Hijab because "Allah said she should do it".

Radicalism 101.

You may say that Israel is a democracy etc and that may be true, it is run as stage orange country. 

However the conception of Israel itself as a state is extremly blue, toxic blue.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Karmadhi

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Iran s current regime is horrible and their citizens are tired of it. Once their leader dies I think there will be another revolution and radical Islam will be removed from power there. The natural order of things where stage blue goes to orange is bound to happen there soon. I do not support Iran, the world would be better if it became a secular country not a radical religious dictatorship like it currently is. People there though are extremely nice and not racist at all. I met many from there. They told me there is around 20% or so which are religious fanatic Mullahs that have the power, the rest are not radicals and actually want to become more Western.

Are you going to make excuses for every Islamic nation? There are 23 of them. Get to work.

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They definetly treat them better than Israel treats Palestinians though. You cannot deny that.

I absolutely can deny that. They treat their own people exponentially worse than Israel treats the Palestinians. 

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War in Syria has created the largest refugee and displacement crisis of our time, affecting millions of people and spilling into surrounding countries.

More than half of Syria’s population is displaced from their homes by the continuation of war, and an estimated 15.3 million will need emergency aid in 2023.

Approximately 5.5 million are refugees and asylum-seekers. (Asylum-seekers are people who’ve applied for refugee status.) And another 6.8 million are displaced within Syria.

Over 90% of Syrians live below the poverty line, and an estimated 12.1 million people are food insecure.

 

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According to the author of Sapiens in an interview with Piers Morgan, it was retaliation for the Nakba. Yes it was wrong though. They could not defeat Israel in a war so they kicked out all their Jews as a form of revolt.

There are millions of Palestinians abroad. They have the biggest diaspora per capita in the world. Jordan alone has millions of them. 

You can make all the excuses in the world, at best this is collective punishment. At worst this is a continuation of Jewish resentment in the region that has continued for centuries. This myth that Jews and Muslims lived in peace holding hands and singing together is nothing more than propaganda. These nations didn't just wake up one day and decide they hated Jews. There was already tensions for millenia.