New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

What percentage of total land will Israel get and what percentage will Palestine get?

I don't know. Its not about an agreemt right now but to do good tactic moves. The palestinians were offered countless times to get a state in the west bank and they have always rejected every offer.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[_Archangel_]

@Leo Gura Yes. Too many errors from every side unfortunately.

[Nivsch]

@_Archangel_ This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there.

Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing.

Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time.

Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time.

You want a chance the world will respect you then respect yourself first.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Then we will see whats next.

maybe help them economically to develop, but I suppose that before that there has to be a serious upheaval, something that makes the Palestinians see that it is better to focus on the practical side of life, look to the future, and forget about revenge, although it seems difficult for this to happen

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

maybe help them economically to develop, but I suppose that before that there has to be a serious upheaval, something that makes the Palestinians see that it is better to focus on the practical side of life, look to the future, and forget about revenge, although it seems difficult for this to happen

Agree. Probably only a more stage blue leadership like the more moderate palestinian authority at the beggining.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Loveeee]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein

《  Einstein supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was opposed to the idea of a Jewish state "with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power." According to Marc Elis, Einstein declared himself a human being, a Jew, an opponent of nationalism, and a Zionist; he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but until summer 1947 conceived of this as a bi-national (Jewish and Arab) state, with "continuously functioning, mixed, administrative, economic, and social organizations."  》

[Twentyfirst]

"We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a GREAT ERROR. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind . . . Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they WILL NOT easily step aside."

"…suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to nepotism. They correspond the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes the despicable and dangerous inclination…"

 

-Ahad Ha'am: Founder of Cultural Zionism 

[_Archangel_]

26 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there.

@Nivsch I think it is usually better to negoitiate rather than bombing if you want hostages back.
(not to mention some of them will die in the bombings)

30 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing.

The lesser of two Evils. Iran and Hezbollah benefit from having Hamas there, if they disappear they won't just stay and watch
 

34 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time.

I agree that the Palestinians would be better off Hamas, but i'm afraid the way Israel is dealing with the problem is the worst possible, for reasons i mentioned before.
Israel made the worst mistake by recluding Palestinian in the strip thinking whis would hold problems at bay.
They basically created a safe space for radicalization to spread and Hamas is the result.
The world commmunity should impose their will because everyone in the area has proven incapable of dealing with it.

 

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time.

I'm not confused i meant what i meant. Aid and Crisis are two different things.
The bombings will cause a H. C. because 100's of thousends of pople won't have a home at the of the conflict. And many more will die and get injured.
Not to count the fact that the strip already has little access to drinkable water, electricity and power. And not just beacause of Hamas.

 

[Hsinav]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

This loose standard is probably also a tactic, that sends a clear message to Hezbollah and other groups/states considering involvement.

[Twentyfirst]

11 minutes ago, Hsinav said:

This loose standard is probably also a tactic, that sends a clear message to Hezbollah and other groups/states considering involvement.

The only message they are sending is a reinforced message of how Arabs see Israel. It's confirming what people already think. That Israel is a brutal occupying regime with no thought of Arab life and the only way to negotiate is to fight back. Thats how they will interpret it. You can't beat them into submission

Unless you are Arab you will have no idea just how outraged the Arab and Muslim worldwide community is until it's too late. The leaders that border this will be forced to do something. There are 2 billion muslims in the world 

Just gonna drop this here again https://youtu.be/jjmM__ZSZYk               

Edited November 8, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[Hsinav]

24 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The only message they are sending is a reinforced message of how Arabs see Israel. It's confirming what people already think 

Unless you are Arab you will have no idea just how outraged the Arab and Muslim worldwide community is until it's too late. The leaders that border this will be forced to do something. There are 2 billion muslims in the world 

Just gonna drop this here again https://youtu.be/jjmM__ZSZYk               

Where do you think the people living in Israel would be today if they had not had a strong military capability?

[Nivsch]

41 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

A proper stage blue society is exactly what the Israeli government fears. If Palestine was as advanced as like for example Iran (economically, infrastructurally, militarily), everything would surge back up. All the fear, all the hate, all the violence that the Palestinians got to know. It doesn't just disappear into nowhere like some magic trick. Conservation of energy. Everything that is being suppressed today will come back up tomorrow. You think Hamas it the problem? Hamas is only a symptom. Remove the infected arm and another arm will be there to strangle you. This won't stop in a day or two. This might not be over in a 100 years. Israel leaders know that. They're not stupid. All they could do so far, without steering up too much chaos, was to suppress and deny the issue. This tactic has run it's course. An actual, strong, stage blue Palestine wouldn't need to send some puny terrorists. They would be capable of going to ACTUAL war.

I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Loveeee]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

War has stakes. Those who win wars get land and those who lose wars lose lands. Again, this isn't kindergarten. If Palestinians wanted to keep their land they should have gone to war with the British and blocked them from giving it over to Israel. But that time has long passed.

They've been fighting ever since 

[Loveeee]

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

Israel will do what the West wants it to do

And the West will do what public opinion wants it to do

And public opinion is shifting 

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Israel will do what the West wants it to do

And the West will do what public opinion wants it to do

And public opinion is shifting 

Shifting?

I dont understand what you mean here.

[DawnC]

57 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

They've been fighting ever since 

With violence. In '48, this might have been a smart approach because they were not much weaker than the Israelis. But it has consequences - they lost the war they initiated. Persisting with a violent strategy is not a wise course of action for the weaker side (especially when the stronger side offers a relatively fair deal). Their continued use of violence in their fight has brought them to this moment.

52 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Israel will do what the West wants it to do

And the West will do what public opinion wants it to do

And public opinion is shifting 

Only to some extent. Israelis will not engage in something they believe poses a major danger to their survival, regardless of public opinion in Western countries. Actually, There is a strong sentiment in Israeli society that goes like 'We will do what we think is right even if people won't like us'.

And although public opinion may shift (I'm not entirely sure about that), strategic considerations remain. This holds greater importance in policy decisions.

Edited November 8, 2023 by DawnC

[hundreth]

34 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Israel will do what the West wants it to do

And the West will do what public opinion wants it to do

And public opinion is shifting 

There are lines Israel will never cross despite Western pressure, which are leaving large security gaps. 

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, hundreth said:

There are lines Israel will never cross despite Western pressure, which are leaving large security gaps. 

Saying this after Oct 7 is hilarious, the large security gap is Israel’s own policies.

[Jodistrict]

“I Will Not Be Silenced”: Rep. Rashida Tlaib Calls for Gaza Ceasefire as House Votes to Censure Her”

This is a video of her emotional speech.

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/8/house_censures_rashida_tlaib_on_israel

“On Tuesday, the House of Representatives voted to censure Democratic Congressmember Rashida Tlaib, the only Palestinian American in Congress, for her criticism of Israel. The vote was 234 to 188, with 22 Democrats joining Republicans to censure Tlaib.” 

She was censored for just asking for a ceasefire.  So much for free speech.  This shows us the central problem.   Congress is owned by the Israeli lobby and they get a blank check.  There is no check on Israel’s power and they  are allowed to do terrible things and any criticism is censored.  
 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

“I Will Not Be Silenced”: Rep. Rashida Tlaib Calls for Gaza Ceasefire as House Votes to Censure Her”

This is a video of her emotional speech.

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/8/house_censures_rashida_tlaib_on_israel

“On Tuesday, the House of Representatives voted to censure Democratic Congressmember Rashida Tlaib, the only Palestinian American in Congress, for her criticism of Israel. The vote was 234 to 188, with 22 Democrats joining Republicans to censure Tlaib.” 

She was censored for just asking for a ceasefire.  So much for free speech.  This shows us the central problem.   Congress is owned by the Israeli lobby and they get a blank check.  There is no check on Israel’s power and they  are allowed to do terrible things and any criticism is censored.  
 

Everyone knows congress and Israel are inseparable by some sketchy means. Don't wait for the news to tell you the truth. Know the truth