New War In Israel / Gaza

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

In all your studies what is the worst thing that a group of humans have ever done in your opinion?

The Roman era was full of vicious extermination of entire city-states. All the men would be killed, all the children and women were raped and sold into slavery. This was standard operating proceedure during those times.

The Romans completely exterminated Carthage.

The Mongols were also extremely vicious if you opposed them. But they could be lenient if you joined them.

Most pre-modern war was utterly barbaric across the board.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

19 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Whats your solution to all this? I haven't heard any of that from you

I already said mine and the reasons why I think it's the best. Move Israel to USA 

If you have a better solution for no more war ever then speak up 

To eliminate hamas and give the control to the palestinian authority with the help of another forces/IDF. After that to stop the settlements expansion and even declare on it officialy.

Then we will see whats next.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

@Twentyfirst You will never move Israel anywhere. This idea it totally ridiculous. Israel is not going anywhere.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Plenty of people are calling Israelis war criminals and losing their shit.

Is Israel sanctioned? Are its leaders being called up or will be called up for war crimes? It is not equal treatment. It does not matter if 20.000 liberals march into Washington against Israel policies, what matters is that the actual governments punish Israel which they are not and probably will not do. 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Russia also was fighting a more conventional war, not Jihadists in tunnels under dense civilian areas. The Ukraine army does not fire rockets from hospitals.

I have heard plenty of reports that they keep weapons in civilian homes which is why Russia bombs them but I do not know if these claims are true.

[Karmadhi]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most pre-modern war was utterly barbaric across the board.

Interesting how Hamas attack which was old textbook military stuff is seen as this barbaric attack while Israeli response which is also old textbook military stuff is seen as "ok". Both are doing pre international law tactics yet only 1 side is frowned upon by governments.

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Is Israel sanctioned? Are its leaders being called up or will be called up for war crimes? It is not equal treatment. It does not matter if 20.000 liberals march into Washington against Israel policies, what matters is that the actual governments punish Israel which they are not and probably will not do. 

Of course the US is allied with Israel so there's going to be a double-standard there. Israel does not threaten US global interests like Russia.

The situation is also very different in that Israel is not trying to annex Gaza the way Russia is doing with Ukraine. Putin started a war of conquest. Israel is responding to terrorist attacks.

Quote

I have heard plenty of reports that they keep weapons in civilian homes which is why Russia bombs them but I do not know if these claims are true.

If that's true then I'd say it's fair game.

But I saw footage of Russians bombing hospitals, schools, etc. I don't give Russia the benefit of the doubt. They do tons of war crimes.

The deeper issue is that it's nearly impossible to conduct a war without war crimes. That's just what war entails. There are no sweet wars that run strictly by the book. War is chaos and madness. Which is why all effort should be made to avoid it. Once that dam bursts there's no holding back the carnage.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mmKay]

55 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Whats your solution to all this? I haven't heard any of that from you

I already said mine and the reasons why I think it's the best. Move Israel to USA 

If you have a better solution for no more war ever then speak up 

 

[_Archangel_]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There's no mystery about it. If Israel did a ground invasion without all this massive bombing, they would incur 10000s of casualties as Hamas ambushes them in the urban jungle. This bombing is softening Hamas up so they are unable to do massive damage to the IDF once the land invasion begins. Yes, destroying infrastructure in Gaza significantly cripples Hamas, even if it does not kill them directly. After a few months of bombing Hamas will be on its last legs from lack of supplies. This is like a medieval siege. In a medieval siege the enemy was surrounded and starved out over a period of 6-12 months. After months of bombing Hamas fighters will be so famished, resource-starved, and fatigued that they will not be able to fire a rifle accurately. That is the strategy here. Israel's goal now is to avoid losing 10,000 IDF soldiers in Gaza to ambush attacks.

@Leo Gura Even if, after months, they're going to defeat hamas, Israel is going to deal with humanitarian crisis of immense proporsion, that i bet they have literally no idea how to manage, looking at how they dealt with the conflict so far. The bombing could backfire.
Of course if they sweap clean the strip Hamas desappears(civillians included), but at that will provoke a reaction from Iran and Hezbollah, resulting in an even bigger escalation and threat for Israel.

The biggest problem is that every state in the area is so militaristic(obviously) and rely upon weapons to solve problems. it will never work.

Best short term action could be political, like proclaiming ceasefire and softening te sanction on Iran, but it's never going to happen with these poeple in power.
 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The Roman era was full of vicious extermination of entire city-states. All the men would be killed, all the children and women were raped and sold into slavery. This was standard operating proceedure during those times.

The Romans completely exterminated Carthage.

The Mongols were also extremely vicious if you opposed them. But they could be lenient if you joined them.

Most pre-modern war was utterly barbaric across the board.

Yeah, glad we don't live in those times 

[Twentyfirst]

55 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

To eliminate hamas and give the control to the palestinian authority with the help of another forces/IDF. After that to stop the settlements expansion and even declare on it officialy.

Then we will see whats next.

 

What percentage of total land will Israel get and what percentage will Palestine get?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The issue is that Palestine was never a proper "nation". It was a loose collection of villages and towns.

The same can be said of many other areas, but the reality is that there were towns that had been inhabited for centuries. The fact of inhabiting a place for generations creates a right over it. expelling those people is more than colonialism, it is a genocidal action. It is something that has been done throughout history many times, for example Stalin did that kind of thing in Ukraine, and still there are consequences

[Twentyfirst]

21 minutes ago, mmKay said:

 

"We should take all the Palestinians and push them somewhere else." - Geniuses in 1948

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Twentyfirst You will never move Israel anywhere. This idea it totally ridiculous. Israel is not going anywhere.

But it is more peaceful than trying to live side by side. They knew the two state solution would never work because why would someone be willing to share half of whats fully theirs?

This is the problem. Israel would rather stay and cause chaos rather then leave somewhere else and live in peace 

[zazen]

I wonder if any commercial interest have got to do with the dedication to take Gaza and expel the Palestinians from it - prime beach front real estate, energy sector, transport canal.

https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

https://www.offshore-technology.com/news/israel-awards-gas-exploration-licences/#:~:text=Israel has awarded 12 licences,are divided into two groups.

The Ben Gurion canal has to go around Gaza which is very costly. If it could cut through the North of Gaza it would save a lot of money and transport time / cost.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/07112023-alternate-suez-canal-the-israeli-ben-gurion-canal-oped/

Edited November 8, 2023 by zazen

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The situation is also very different in that Israel is not trying to annex Gaza the way Russia is doing with Ukraine. Putin started a war of conquest. Israel is responding to terrorist attacks.

Many claim Israel will annex Gaza if the refugees leave.

Russia invaded Ukraine so the country will not join NATO and to take the lands which are mostly Russian and should not be in Ukraine in the first place. I doubt they would have annexed Ukrainian majority populated lands. If you are a Russian in Ukraine being annexed by Russia kinda makes sense. 

Now though considering the many people killed in Russia they will probably annex more than just the contraversial areas like Donbask where there was war even before the invasion.

Maybe I see it differently but if X land is populated by X people historically it should belong to the mother country, and if war is done to take it it is justifible because those people will live in the country where they belong. The issue is invading country that is totally different from yours. So if Russia invades Georgia and annexes it it is a mistake. Or if Russia takes part of Ukraine which are mostly Ukranian.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Karmadhi

[hundreth]

There's people here literally arguing to move Israel to the United States and some of you are responding to them in good faith 

[Twentyfirst]

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

There's people here literally arguing to move Israel to the United States and some of you are responding to them in good faith 

Let's hear what you have to say since your so smart

Whats the solution? 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, _Archangel_ said:

If they're going to defeat hamas, Israel is going to deal with humanitarian crisis of immense proporsion, that i bet they have literally no idea how to manage,

Agreed.

There's just no clean solution. Either way it will be dirty and nasty.

This is peak politics: where you must choose between only shitty options.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bariumly]

Here's a different social experiment, what we are used to, but it is good that gesture on their part to remind humanity of what is happening in the reality.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

28 minutes ago, zazen said:

I wonder if any commercial interest have got to do with the dedication to take Gaza.I wonder if any commercial interest have got to do with the dedication to take Gaza and expel the Palestinians from it - prime beach front real estate, energy sector, transport canal.

https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

https://www.offshore-technology.com/news/israel-awards-gas-exploration-licences/#:~:text=Israel has awarded 12 licences,are divided into two groups.

The Ben Gurion canal has to go around Gaza which is very costly. If it could cut through the North of Gaza it would save a lot of money and transport time / cost.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/07112023-alternate-suez-canal-the-israeli-ben-gurion-canal-oped/

There should be many interests that we don't know yet. 

Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, 9/11 these attacks were all false flag operations.