New War In Israel / Gaza

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

understand that people share propaganda from both sides but there are different types of propaganda, some of them are more rooted in reality than others while some of them are completely twisted from reality.

The thing of the propaganda is not to see who is more evil, is to understand the motivation. What is the motivation of Israel with that? Think that in the government there are extremist condemned by terrorism who really wants the the expulsion of all Palestinians. So what is the motivation? Don't you see where it all leads?

[Lila9]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 Sorry, but you are absolutely innocent. think with your brain. Why tie children's hands and then torture them when you are in enemy territory and at any moment the army is going to come and kill you? Don't you see that it's a lie? He is inventing everything. You don't tie children's hands when you're a guy with an assault rifle, it's not necessary. 

All are lies to start the great nakba, you will see. We are going to see very important things. 

You are naive for believing that Hamas are nice people.

They themselves confessed about the horrible things they did on the 7th of October:

Edit:

This is the full version of the interviews:

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Lila9

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

You are naive for believing that Hamas are nice people.

I don't think that, I know they kill civilians, they are terrorist, if they could, they will kill all the Jews in the world. I'm taking about Israel, not about Hamas.  that all about torture are lies. If you spread those lies, is for a reason. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't think that, I know they kill civilians, they are terrorist, if they could, they will kill all the Jews in the world. I'm taking about Israel, not about Hamas. Its sure that all about torture are lies. If you spread those lies, is for a reason. 

This ZAKA guy talked about bodies that look tortured, it can be done in various ways, it can be done by burning and it can be done by shooting the body many times until it unrecognizable. It was admitted by the arrested Hamas terrorists that they shotcivilians many times and burned homes, look at the longer version of the interviews I shared above. 

[Raze]

 

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, DawnC said:

Unfortunately Iran is not a liberal democracy.  And I'm not in the business of interfering with their domestic decisions. I'm in the business of being aware that some nations/regimes can be hostile, harbor bad intentions, and may be willing to act against other countries. The spectrum of options available to nations includes these choices as well. 

Is liberal democracy somehow the superior form of government? If so, who decides that it is the best?

Israel is a democracy. I think it is pretty hostile 

[PurpleTree]

41 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Is liberal democracy somehow the superior form of government? If so, who decides that it is the best?

Israel is a democracy. I think it is pretty hostile 

For women, lgbt, psychedelics, freedom of speech etc etc yes it’s much better

[Twentyfirst]

30 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

For women, lgbt, psychedelics, freedom of speech etc etc yes it’s much better

The women I met from the Middle East are pretty happy

They aren't as combative and adversarial as western women either. They don't make their men look like absolute fools. Thats why passport bros blew up so quick

One mans trash is another mans treasure 

Psychedelics are illegal almost anywhere you go

How far does freedom of speech take you in the West? Have you ever actually been able to profoundly change something large scale for the better?

Edited November 4, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[Nivsch]

@Raze Actually the soldier who shot him was lying on the ground while did that which means most likely felt a real threat.

That "stone" could be a grenade BTW

Most of the world-wide comments support Israel there.

Why to provoke in such a way to begin with?

Personally I think the better way is to shoot on his legs. But I'm not an expert. Maybe they know something I dont.

I dont like this video and I am not deny there are problems sometimes even in a (relatively to the rest) quite high morality army.

But the problem is that those who are against Israel to begin with, will see every such video as if I would watch TV through a telescope. They cant be convinced because the complex picture doesnt matter to them. They have already chose a side and the only way to change their mind is if they themselves will want their mind to be changed.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

The women I met from the Middle East are pretty happy

They aren't as combative and adversarial as western women either. They don't make their men look like absolute fools. Thats why passport bros blew up so quick

One mans trash is another mans treasure 

Psychedelics are illegal almost anywhere you go

How far does freedom of speech take you in the West? Have you ever actually been able to profoundly change something large scale for the better?

Well for me it’s much better 

[Twentyfirst]

6 minutes ago, Nabd said:

You are ignoring the fact that the majority of these populations demanded democracy and are oppressed.

It's not that democracy is good. The majority of the populations of these countries are on a higher spiral dynamic stage than their government which will always lead to oppression and struggles.

True

 

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Nabd said:

In that region of the world, I prefer "but the governments are retarded" 

If democracy is choosing your representatives then retarded people choose retarded governments

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But the problem is that those who are against Israel to begin with, will see every such video as if I would watch TV through a telescope. They cant be convinced because the complex picture doesnt matter to them.

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 

It is difficult to understand the situation from the outside. For me there is a fundamental fact, and that is that it seems obvious that the Israelis want to little by little steal all the lands from the Palestinians. So what should they do? They live with another nation that has more rights than them, they are second-class citizens, anyone can expel them from their home, even kill them with impunity. It is a situation that must be very difficult to live in, so it is normal for people to sympathize with the Palestinians. and after the bombings, the entire world will unequivocally support them.

[Nivsch]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

the Israelis want to little by little steal all the lands from the Palestinians. So what should they do? They live with another nation that has more rights than them.

Do you mean here to the settlements in the west bank?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Do you mean here to the settlements in the west bank?

Yes, The issue of settlers and expansion makes Israel an aggressor state, there is no justification for that, and it legitimizes externally that the Palestinians defend themselves with violence.

You could say it's their fault, that they started wars in the past, whatever, but right now that's the situation, and the world is starting to see Israel as a criminal state. Sure the thing is much more complex after so many years of conflict, but it's what is perceived from outside

Edited November 4, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Twentyfirst]

https://youtu.be/jjmM__ZSZYk

[Nivsch]

34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, The issue of settlers and expansion makes Israel an aggressor state, there is no justification for that, and it legitimizes externally that the Palestinians defend themselves with violence.

You could say it's their fault, that they started wars in the past, whatever, but right now that's the situation, and the world is starting to see Israel as a criminal state. Sure the thing is much more complex after so many years of conflict, but it's what is perceived from outside

Yes I also don't like the expansion of the settlements. Its a problem.

But to evacuate thousand of settlers is the extreme opposite and will show us as weak. What also have been proved to increase the terror.

To stop the expansion, even to declare it officialy, but to still stay there with soldiers in the west bank, the settlements just where they are, and to keep the security co-operation with the palestinian authority, seems like the smartest strategy for now.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

19 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But to evacuate thousand of settlers is the extreme opposite and will show us as weak. 

It could also be seen as a sign of goodwill and de-escalation 

[Breakingthewall]

35 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Yes I also don't like the expansion of the settlements. Its a problem.

But to evacuate thousand of settlers is the extreme opposite and will show us as weak. What also have been proved to increase the terror.

To stop the expansion, even to declare it officialy, but to still stay there with soldiers in the west bank, the settlements just where they are, and to keep the security co-operation with the palestinian authority, seems like the smartest strategy for now.

 

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

 

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 

Do you think that after the bombing of Gaza there is any possibility of cooperation? Seems another level of violence, but who knows, maybe it's something cathartic that shows the need to live together in peace. This would be in a parallel reality I'm afraid.

Be Israeli must be a strange experience

Edited November 4, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Do you think that after the bombing of Gaza there is any possibility of cooperation? Seems another level of violence, but who knows, maybe it's something cathartic that shows the need to live together in peace. This would be in a parallel reality I'm afraid.

Be Israeli must be a strange experience

After 1200 murdered and 240 hostages who suffer right now in nightmare which is maybe and most likely 100 times more of any gazaian (not to cancel gazaian's situation but the world anyway talk almost only about them) so yes, I dont really think Israel has another option right now but to put the higher pressure possible on hamas. 

Do you mean that maybe what happens affect the sides in both ways? Disturb the relationships but also help too?

See, I am not sure the palestinian authority cares too much of what happen in gaza but I am not an expert so dont really know what it does.

The problem is that I really think that peace with red-blue culture won't be possible without also talk their language, and build a character they will respect, what almost anybody here not emphasize enough.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Nivsch