Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Ex Israel army soldier exposing the practices that the Israelian army done to Palestinians. Very insightful into hearing how their inner thoughts are made to justify their behavior. And I like his reflection regarding respecting sovereignty, as he states: "If you will not respect existence, then you can expect resistance". Edited October 30, 2023 by Explore Clarificaiton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 Chris Hedges : Think about that. A people, imprisoned in the world’s largest concentration camp for sixteen years, denied food, water, fuel and medicine, lacking an army, air force, navy, mechanized units, artillery, command and control and missile batteries, is being butchered and starved by one of the most advanced militaries on the planet, and they are the Nazis/terrorists? There is an historical analogy here. But it is not one that Bennett, Netanyahu or any other Israeli leader wants to acknowledge. When those who are occupied refuse to submit, when they continue to resist, we drop all pretense of our “civilizing” mission and unleash, as in Gaza, an orgy of destruction. We become drunk on violence. This violence makes us insane. We kill with reckless ferocity. We become the beasts we accuse the oppressed of being. We expose the lie of our vaunted moral superiority. We expose the fundamental truth about Western civilization — we are the most ruthless and efficient killers on the planet. This alone is why we dominate the “wretched of the earth.” It has nothing to do with democracy or freedom or liberty. These are rights we never intend to grant to the oppressed. “Honor, justice, compassion and freedom are ideas that have no converts,” Joseph Conrad, who wrote “Heart of Darkness,” reminds us. “There are only people, without knowing, understanding or feelings, who intoxicate themselves with words, repeat words, shout them out, imagining they believe them without believing in anything else but profit, personal advantage and their own satisfaction.” Genocide lies at the core of Western imperialism. It is not unique to Israel. It is not unique to the Nazis. It is the building block of Western domination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said: I think we should switch to another topic. Well you can just go to another thread. There are many topics on the forum you know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, zazen said: Genocide lies at the core of Western imperialism. It is not unique to Israel. It is not unique to the Nazis. It is the building block of Western domination. Yea and what about genocides from china, japan, indonesia, cambodia, african countries etc etc? idiotic western hating bs at least we have human rights in the „west“ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) @zazen Israel left gaza and provided them food, water, medicine etc every day, because they dont have port and airport. Their missery is because of hamas. But you (not you specifically but everyone who is not by Israel's side) won't want to think that way, so you will find any acrobat movement to twist this upside down therefore the discussion is pointless as Gennadie said. Edited October 30, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said: Well you can just go to another thread. There are many topics on the forum you know Why is everyone so obsessed with Israel and the Jews. What about Ukrainians and Russians? What about Iran and how minorities are treated there? Apparently we are a hot topic, thats the price we need to bear for being chosen. What can I do. You know all my life I was trying to walk away from religion but I see the prophecy is, it keeps pulling us back to it. That is says we need to be light unto the nations and when we are not the world will get upset at us. It says the world will calm down when we start teaching them about God. I guess I have no choice but to start teaching you guys. Too bad this form does not have section that is dedicated to religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said: Why is everyone so obsessed with Israel and the Jews. What about Ukrainians and Russians? What about Iran and how minorities are treated there? Maybe they are jealous. Edited October 30, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @zazen Israel left gaza and provided them food, water, medicine etc every day, because they dont have port and airport. Their missery is because of hamas. But you (not you specifically but everyone who is not by Israel's side) won't want to think that way, so you will find any acrobat movement to twist this upside down therefore the discussion is pointless as Gennadie said. @Nivsch Did you noticed you keep answering the same question over and over. Those who are blind will ignore you and be asking the same question just using different words. I believe this was the sixth time or fifth that you keep repeating yourself. I tried counting but got mixed at one point. By the way all, I actually was not sarcastic about bible, what I said in previous one seems to hold true. Note how people filter what the other side says. I am really reading down the posts and all arguments just go the other way, they skip through the ears. See how deep the issue is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, Nivsch said: Maybe they are jealouse. Exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said: Why is everyone so obsessed with Israel and the Jews. What about Ukrainians and Russians? There was a big thread about the russian attack on ukraine here when it started but it fizzled out, this one will probably too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, zazen said: @hundreth By law, people under occupation have the right to armed resistance which is denied to Palestinians but their are no rights for Israel to be doing things the way they are. Do you believe that what Hamas did on Oct 7 is an acceptable "armed resistance"? Quote Doesn't the Palestinian cause stand for much more than the isolated event of the Hamas attack? Yes. Are you saying Hamas = Palestinians? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, hundreth said: Do you believe that what Hamas did on Oct 7 is an acceptable "armed resistance"? Yes. Are you saying Hamas = Palestinians? It wasn’t acceptable by any measure, morally or legally as it was against non-combatant civilians. No, but many from the Isreali government are conflating the two and calling for their extermination. The problem isn’t with Israel’s right to exist - it’s the form in which Israel currently exists being at the expense of the inhabitants of that land in which it needs to be shared with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 John Mearsheimer speaks on Israel-Gaza https://rumble.com/v3snss5-sustem-update-show-173.html Vincit omnia Veritas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 9 hours ago, zazen said: @Lila9 Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said. The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. Tutsis are cockroaches. We will kill you.” Arabs are like “drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” The first quote was a line repeated frequently by the Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines, a Rwandan radio station, which is largely blamed for inciting hatred towards the Tutsi people. The second is by former Israeli army Chief-of-Staff Gen. Rafael Eitan in 1983, speaking at an Israeli parliament’s committee. Rwanda’s hate-filled radio station operated for only one year (1993-94), yet the outcome of its incitement resulted in one of the saddest and most tragic episodes in modern human history: the genocide of the Tutsis. Compare “Radio Genocide” to the massive Israeli-U.S.-Western propaganda, dehumanizing Palestinians almost with identical language to that used by Hutus’ media. Israel is very traumatized and some leaders talk impulsively because they themselves feel surprised and lost. It doesn't mean that they actually commit genocide. What about Hamas threats for years to kill Jews and eliminate Israel? What about Iran's threats for years? What about Hezbollah threats, for years? They do this for years and nobody cares. 👽 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Israel is very traumatized and some leaders talk impulsively because they themselves feel surprised and lost. It doesn't mean that they actually commit genocide. What about Hamas threats for years to kill Jews and eliminate Israel? What about Iran's threats for years? What about Hezbollah threats, for years? They do this for years and nobody cares. I start to think that maybe the western world is expecting Israel to be similar to them (to the weatern world) because we are in the same camp as the western world (in term of development) and thats why the world is dissapointed when it sees Israel doing things that seems from distance as less moral, and respond to Israel in that way. Maybe its a bit naive to think this is only for that reason but I think this is at least a significant part of the reason the world shouts so easily on Israel. You shout only to whom you have expectations from. Edited October 31, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 The biggest concen now is that Israel's invasion will look so brutal that Arab countries will be forced into a full blown war with Israel. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) @Leo Gura That's utterly ridiculous. Yes, this war is brutal but there is also an understanding of why and who started it. Arab leadership also hates Hamas and wants them gone. The risk for escalation from Iran and Lebanon is really high, they are already fighting in low intensity. But Arab countries can't do shit and don't want to do shit. Their biggest weapon is breaking down relations, which they probably will start up again after the war. Edited October 31, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) @Vrubel Their biggest weapon is an oil embargo which they did in the past. Also gas. Qatar is already threatening that. EU already cut out gas from Russia, combining it with Arab oil and gaz embargo and it will not look good for them. Arab countries together control like 40% of all oil reserves in the world. No need to fire bullets, this could prove more effective. But I am not saying they will. @Leo Gura What do you think? Edited October 31, 2023 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: @Leo Gura That's utterly ridiculous. Yes, this war is brutal but there is also an understanding of why and who started it. Arab leadership also hates Hamas and wants them gone. The risk for escalation from Iran and Lebanon is really high, they are already fighting in low intensity. But Arab countries can't do shit and don't want to do shit. Their biggest weapon is breaking down relations, which they probably will start up again after the war. Turkey is an outrage. So is Iran. And the invasion hasn't even begun. The whole Muslim world will be genuinely outraged by the next year of brutal images from in Gaza. It will look more and more like a genocide, even if it technically isn't. The Arabs and Muslims in the region will see it that way. And the leaders in power will have a lot of pressure to act. Just try to imagine how bad the footage from Gaza will be after 3-5 months of no food, water, medicine, fuel. It's gonna look extremely bad, like Israel is starving out the whole population. When even moderate people see this they will turn against Israel. What is gonna happen to over 1,000,000 civilians in Gaza a year into this seige and blockade? They will be on the brink of death or madness. Even assuming Israel has no desire to do a genocide, in practice that's what is gonna happen if the invasion and blockage lasts for 3+ months. For Israel's own sake they need to care more about saving the Gaza civilians and give them supplies. Edited October 31, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) Turkey and Iran are the only Muslim players in the region with some actual teeth to fight. The gulf countries can only act through diplomatic means and possibly financial / energy - even that is messy for them as they have trillions worth of assets managed by Western funds who are sympathetic to Israel, that money could be frozen as happened with Russian money. Israel is not de-escalating and Bibi is saying a hard no to ceasefire - Hezbollah and Iran and to a lesser extent Turkey have given their red lines which are being crossed and now will have to act in order to not lose credibility / save face. Edited October 31, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
