New War In Israel / Gaza

[PurpleTree]

40 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The thing is that the much restrainted attitude has already been tried during the last 15 years.

Seems like the settlements/settlers expanded though

[lina]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

 For me, it's starkly clear how Israel is not targeting civilians and limiting casualties but I understand that for an innocent westerner that is hard to see.  

Just the fact that they are only allowing extremely minimal amount of urgently needed aid to the civilians, completely cutting off fuel (which is causing the complete collapse of the healthcare system, doctors are doing surgeries without anesthesia and other horrors) tells you something is deeply wrong. If not stopped, that will definitely lead to more loss of countless human lives due to disease. 

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/starvation-weapon-war-being-used-against-gaza-civilians-oxfam

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-health-care-doctor-israel-bombing-gaza-siege-hospital-63d00d907f5469c81f49c0201801c997

Edited October 26, 2023 by lina

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

But what can Israel do differently?

Everything. The idea of entering with infantry to kill Hamas militants is impossible. Thousands of Israeli soldiers would die, it would be a Stalingrad-type hell in miniature, and Gaza would have to be completely destroyed. Hamas would use the population as a shield, and genocide would be inevitable. For Hamas it's perfect, everyone goes to paradise, but the cost for Israel will be enormous, especially considering that this is a consequence of Israel's security failure. Gaza is supposed to be closed because there are terrorists. You can't close it so negligently, you already know they hate you, Israel killed 300, of them 65 children, in the 2018 protests. What did you expect?

[Vrubel]

@lina The world should give Israel the room to fight Hamas however it sees fit. In the meantime, Gaza civilians will suffer. They should have known that when they attacked. 

You can't attack anybody in the world like that and expect a weak ass response, though I still see how Israel is calculating and holding back. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Vrubel

[lina]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

@lina The world should give Israel the room to fight Hamas however it sees fit. 

Israel is not the center of the universe, even if it was, that doesn't give the Israeli gov the entitlement to act like a mad butcher without being held accountable. 

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

You can't attack anybody in the world like that and expect a weak ass response

With this kind of logic, Palestinians have the right to do the same. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by lina

[Vrubel]

@lina Palestinians can have decent loving lives even under occupation but Israelis cannot live next to Hamas. Both are cruel but the cruelty of Hamas is absolute. 

On a more analytical note: Israel is mostly only sensitive to American pressure so this war will prolong until the Americans decide to put serious pressure on Israel to stop. You better believe that Israel is calculating this in their attacks to put off that eventual pressure point for as long as possible.  

Edited October 26, 2023 by Vrubel

[zazen]

@Vrubel No one wants to be “under” anyone else and especially not in the fashion of an “occupation”. The fact this is so hard to understand shows the arrogance of Gods chosen people when that term is taken too literally.

Edited October 26, 2023 by zazen

[ArcticGong]

Is not this and other conflict very ego based? That land is considered special and extra worthy to die for must be a motivating factor to perpetuate the conflict. When people cry out about humanity, i can’t help to be sceptical because if humanity was a priority, both parties would actively look for a solution many years ago. Furthermore, all the outside stakeholders would be trying to de escalate violence instead of stoking it, which outsiders allies, and stakeholders from both parties don’t seems interested in doing. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by ArcticGong
Grammar

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, RoerAmit said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wmx-wQDQHU 
 

 

Great link!

Explains Israel's policy in gaza.

Please guys see from 3:30 to 6:30 (the core explanation) but its interesting to keep listening also after that.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Nivsch

[Scholar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keqZb6YrVO4

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Scholar said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keqZb6YrVO4

Should we just click on random youtube links? Is a video description too much to ask for?

🦆

[GabeN]

@Leo Gura

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) The US created ISIS with bad policy. Which is what Israel will also do.

2) Hamas is more complicated because Palestinians will still live in the region and still need a political solution to their situation. You have a situation there which will keep respawning radical Jihadists.

good point about respawning radical jihadists, how can this loop stop? I’ve grown up in Palestinian schools they do not teach anything close to the radicalism of Hamas. But those jihadists grow up in Gaza where Hamas controls probably most of what it’s being educated.

By the way: it is well known that in the West Bank every Friday prayer, the government sends out to all the Muslim shieks what to preach on that Friday, just think about what hamas might preach out to achieve their goals, if you grow up believing in an afterlife full of pleasures in the garden of Eden if You die as a “shaheed” , you will probably not fear death as much in fact, that will be exciting for you. We can see why this is a problem.

Ps: in this video around 8:30 you can see a okay being done by kids at school training for commando team in Hamas 

https://youtu.be/CZwTmT__qzY?si=sfAdamCK2eUWxRua 

Edited October 26, 2023 by GabeN

[RoerAmit]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNkmDHYM/

Testimony of a member of the body identification team from the October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas on southern Israel in which over 1000 civilians, women, children, and the elderly were murdered

 

[Karmadhi]

At this point the shit I have seen happening in Gaza looks more and more like WW2 shit.

I thought developed countries had evolved past such barbarity but unfortunately there is much work to be done.

The Israeli army is degrading into murderous insanity.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Karmadhi

[PurpleTree]

Ex Israeli soldier saying, this israeli government is incapable of defeating hamas, the ideology can‘t be defeated with weapons 

https://youtu.be/7fPtN4hVlFA?si=se6ukvW2IQxMTYMb

[Vrubel]

Everybody can do their outcry, but as long as Hamas is holding women and children the Israeli army will rage on. This is not some kind of unprovoked naked aggression. Israel owes nothing to Gaza. 

[Hardkill]

IDF already killed a top Hamas commander:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/israel-says-they-killed-top-hamas-commander-in-airstrike-196496453713

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

The thing is that the much restrainted attitude has already been tried during the last 15 years.

So then get ready for a decade of war that will cost 10,000+ Israeli lives and 100,000+ Palestinians. That's what this invasion will realistically result in.

In the end, all that will happen is everyone will tire of war. But only after a decade of it. And we will be back to where we started. Jihadists will still hate Israel. Perhaps more than ever.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

This whole situation is like the most infuriating impossible puzzle. The more you study it, no matter which side you take, no matter how reasonable you are, no matter how nuanced you are, there is no solution.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This whole situation is like the most infuriating impossible puzzle. The more you study it, no matter which side you take, no matter how reasonable you are, no matter how nuanced you are, there is no solution.

US/NATO/UN intervention might be the only way. Get Israel to uproot the settlements and basically force a two state solution