Posted October 23, 2023 @Breakingthewall there was an information, but the believe system we had about hamas cause us to dismiss it. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: Those buildings are EMPTY after civilians leave as they were asked by Israel all the time to do so. The goal of the bombing is to change the terrain and the landscape because otherwise our soldiers will be sitting ducks. I understand the tactic but hundreds of civilians are getting killed by those strikes and many who have survived have said they had never had a warning! Seems to me that some here value the Israeli life more than Palestinian's which is pretty weird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Breakingthewall there was an information, but the believe system we had about hamas cause us to dismiss it. So, how does someone deduce that it can't be that Hamas is planning an attack, despite being terrorists and launching rockets all the time, they don't even send some soldiers to take a look, they forget and turn off the surveillance screens? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, BassamMo said: I understand the tactic but hundreds of civilians are getting killed by those strikes and many who have survived have said they had never had a warning! Seems to me that some here value the Israeli life more than Palestinian's which is pretty weird I understand. Do you have a better way to eliminate hamas? 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @Breakingthewall @Nivsch Conspiracy requires competence and governments are full of incompetence. Israel and Bibi were in the midst of political crises before the attack, with protests every week and opposition to judicial reforms which were to be made to protect himself from corruption charges and a life time in prison. Not to mention the increasing powers which would give them power to discriminate against local arabs and further annex land in the West Bank - in fact thats where a lot of the security focus shifted as settlers and settler violence was increasing. Hamas was opportunistic, as is the Isreali government in response to the attack and doing what they always do according to their Dahiya doctrine which is to use disproportionate force. Theirs a difference between orchestrating events and being opportunistic with them. When powered elites react to events its easy to jump to the point that they created those very events as a pretext (ie problem reaction solution) when in a lot of cases it is just that a pretext is given by events playing out the chessboard of geopolitics. Edited October 23, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 58 minutes ago, PurpleTree said: It’s funny how al jazeera is so good at pointing out issues in israel and other countries but thy never talk about issues in qatar for example cgtn is so good in pointing out issues in the west etc yet they never have an issue to point out in china same with rt and russia those indian channels like wion talk about europe etc all day, yet never criticise modi and india while channels like let’s say france 24 do point out problems in for example china but also in france at home Also a channel like “crux” i don’t know where its from. But it critiques everybody aside from india/modi so it’s pretty safe to say it’s an indian channel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, Nivsch said: I understand. Do you have a better way to eliminate hamas? I'm not a military expert. I only care about the human life and want peace to prevail. But seems to me that the IDF is carrying out a genocide in Gaza and basically viewing the two million people there as Hamas, I will never be ok with this personally Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Nabd said: The problem is Aljazeera and another Saudi media outlet basically monopolized the media in the region and both of them never talk about internal problems and there are plenty, or even real problems like they never covered the history of Hamas and how it was created. Hundreds of millions of people watch them and they have immense power to focus on some things while ignoring others depending on their governments foreign policies. Imagine that Aljazeera literally view Hamas as freedom fighters and they go about this 24/7. I agree it’s one sided and basically propaganda but also the hypocrisy is lovely Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @Nabd Aid enter now every day to gaza. Hamas tries to block civilians from moving southward, threatening them and even do explosions along the road to make them retreat. Edited October 23, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @Nabd I feel that you believe Israel trying to attack civilians deliberately what shows you dont know Israel logic and mentality. The debate has no value because I won't change your mind. I just hope that this round will be the last one and after we finish hamas Israel won't need to dirt it hands anymore in that polluted swamp and not be responsible anymore for disfunctional population who supported those animals and now they are eating the meal they have cooked. Edited October 23, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @Nivsch Why aren’t you able to respond to my questions? Don’t be blind to Israels war crimes and shortcomings the same way the deranged are blind to Hamas’s. By the definition of what a terrorist is, isn’t what Israel is allowing to happen via the settlers in the West Bank a terrorist act? Do you condemn terrorism, whether it’s done by a organisation (Hamas) or by a state (Israel)? People criticising Israel isn’t in most cases people criticising the Israeli people - the same way the world criticises the US government and its foreign policy which isn’t the necessarily the people of the US. People shouldn’t personalise criticism of their state. Edited October 23, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @zazen You are right about the violence and the racism of many of the settlers towards the arabs. The occupation of the west bank IS corrupting. Can we leave that land away and stay safe? After what happend I am not so sure. Edited October 23, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @zazen You are right about the violence and the racism of significant amount of the settlers towards the arabs. The occupation of the west bank IS corrupting. Can we leave that land away and stay safe? I am not so sure. I read that this guy is idolized for a lot of Israeli. What is the difference between this guy and Hamas? https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein If Israel has this kind of people, could you imagine how would be to live is west bank being an Arab close those people supported by the police and army? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said: I read that this guy is idolized for a lot of Israeli. What is the difference between this guy and Hamas? https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein If Israel has this kind of people, could you imagine how would be to live is west bank being an Arab close those people supported by the police and army? Yes he is a terrorist. But this is an utterly extreme case in here. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @zazen You are right about the violence and the racism of many of the settlers towards the arabs. The occupation of the west bank IS corrupting. Can we leave that land away and stay safe? After what happend I am not so sure. Thats the source of the problem, occupation. Power corrupts, but persecution of people by the hands of power (in this case Israel) corrupts those very people to become terrorists. Its impossible to bomb a ideology of resistance, out of existence - except to allow them the right to self determination and their own state. Leaving Gaza isn't an appropriate response when it is still under siege and West Bank is continuously being occupied via settler annexation. Israel leaving Gaza was like the guards leaving the prison but still keeping the people in one with the doors locked. Allowing them their own state is seen as a threat - this is why a two state solution isn't allowed to happen - because either side aren't trusted to be neighbours. But neither is a one state solution feasible from the looks of it - just going by the example in West Bank it doesn't seem they can coexist, and the existing arabs in other parts of Israel have new laws from the far right government coming for them eventually. On top of this, Palestinians will outnumber Israelis sooner or later which will cause rising tensions. Its a tricky situation. The existing West Bank has settlers in the number of 700'000 so even in a two state solution, that would mean them leaving which will be very difficult. The two state solution has been given lip service while settlers keep coming and everyone knows that this just makes it impossible. The borders of neighbouring countries that don't trust each are known as fault lines, and that is just a reality that needs to be lived with in the end maybe. Ukraine/Russia, Pakistan/India etc. That seems to be a better solution than to have an apartheid architecture set up that the world condemns and is against in the 21st century - and to have the continuous threat of resistant terrorism renewing itself. Edited October 23, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: Yes he is a terrorist. But this is an utterly extreme case in here. 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: @zazen Yes, but it seems that he has a public tomb and people visit it and honor him, and many settlers consider him a hero. Let's see, this is a guy who entered a mosque killing unarmed people. Those settlers who idolize him would want to do the same, I suppose, just like the minister of security. There are genocides in the settlements and in the government of Israel, it is obvious, then a genocide will occur Edited October 23, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 https://youtu.be/RG5ZiAIdla0?si=4PoY_M6gTz_vgMCV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) A lot of videos like this. The settlers are like nerds that feel strong and bully the Palestinian because have the army behind. https://youtu.be/Mag5r7JdJwA?si=HjglFtULXxfh77Ga https://youtu.be/pfMc2Y43bdo?si=KFao0pVJUp5ZgeAf Edited October 23, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) @Nabd Dude, you're Syrian. People massacred each other there with no Jew insight. Spare me your outrage, where is the mass outrage when it comes to Uighurs? You've been fed lies and propaganda since childhood because Israel is a convenient scapegoat for Arab failures. Yes, many Arabs are decent people but some others don't even deserve to be called human. Edited October 23, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 23, 2023 It's quite simple, Israeli knows it very clearly, they want to expell the Arabs and conquer again Israel, and that's what they are doing https://youtu.be/yHRuULJ97vQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
