New War In Israel / Gaza

[integration journey]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu's plan was to have Palesitine as an autonomous region but without a military, because he thinks it would be used to attack Israel. Frankly, this is a valid concern.

What is meant by "give Palestine a state" is simply, give them a military with control over air space. Netanyahu refuses to give them air space control because then they might bomb Israel with planes or invade with tanks.

This does not make Netanyahu some monster. He has a right to worry about what radicals in Palestine might do with a proper military.

Wasn’t there bombing on a hospital that killed more than 600+ Palestinians just a few hours ago? How could that happen without Netanyahu knowing about it. I think he does qualify to be a monster and a war criminal 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

Israeli occupation not allowing a Palestinian state with a military etc helps fuel terrorism. However now can they be trusted with the rights of a full state? Becomes a vicious catch 22 that I don’t know how gets solved 

Yes, it's a Catch 22, but frankly if you governed Israel you would not want to gamble with the lives of your people by allowing your neighbor, full of radical Islamists, to get a proper military. Iran would fund that military and egg it on to bomb Israel. Iran repeatedly says, death to the Jews.

Iran bears a lot of responsibility for fueling this war too and ensuring no long term peace. Iran is hellbent to prevent any peace.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura It would be useful to know what percentage of the Palestinian population wants a two state solution and what percentage want to wipe out Israel.

[Jodistrict]

 

[integration journey]

Israel bombs Iranian bases in Syria almost daily. Iran pushed Hamas to do the dirty work and when shit got real, they said we have nothing to do with it. 
Iran is the biggest threat to Arabs because they have so many Arabic cities under their control. Iranian militia committed so many massacres in Syria and Iraq. Iran created ISIS to destroy the Syrian revolution.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

@Leo Gura It would be useful to know what percentage of the Palestinian population wants a two state solution and what percentage want to wipe out Israel.

I'm not even sure how relevant that is. Because in the end a radical minority could capture a weak Palestinian state and use it as a genocidal platform.

Even if Palestine gets some form of democratic self-rule, it's gonna be a weak democracy at best. Look at the US. We are barely keeping our democracy intact today. How easily could Palestinian democracy get hijacked by Islamists? Very easily with the help of Iran. This is a legit concern for Netanyahu.

You are asking Israelis to trust with their lives that that won't happen. Obviously that's not a gamble they wanna take. Especially after the latest Hamas attack.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it's a Catch 22, but frankly if you governed Israel you would not want to gamble with the lives of your people by allowing your neighbor, full of radical Islamists, to get a proper military. Iran would fund that military and egg it on to bomb Israel. Iran repeatedly says, death to the Jews.

Iran bears a lot of responsibility for fueling this war too and ensuring no long term peace. Iran is hellbent to prevent any peace.

But is it true that Bibi did secretly fund the Hamas militants and made illicit deals with them via Egypt for many years in order to weaken the innocent PA?

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu's plan was to have Palesitine as an autonomous region but without a military, because he thinks it would be used to attack Israel. Frankly, this is a valid concern.

What is meant by "give Palestine a state" is simply, give them a military with control over air space. Netanyahu refuses to give them air space control because then they might bomb Israel with planes or invade with tanks.

This does not make Netanyahu some monster. He has a right to worry about what radicals in Palestine might do with a proper military.

None of this is some secret. Netanyahu publically states these concerns in interviews. See here:

 

9 hours ago, Scholar said:

 

It is a totally valid point of view. The problem is to continue colonizing the West Bank day by day. How is this justified?

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But is it true that Bibi did secretly fund the Hamas militants and made illicit deals with them via Egypt for many years in order to weaken the innocent PA?

Hard to say.

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is a totally valid point of view. The problem is to continue colonizing the West Bank day by day. How is this justified?

It's easily justified if it's true that if Israel pulls out and Islamists take over like in Gaza.

Israel already did this experiment once. They pulled completely out of Gaza and Hamas formed. Now you want them to do the same in the West Bank. Okay, but what if Hamas 2.0 forms there? That's why the military check points exist in West Bank.

Now there will have to be military check points in Gaza to check for terrorists even if Hamas is eliminated. The check points are what keep radicals from grabbing power.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel already did this experiment once. They pulled completely out of Gaza and Hamas formed. Now you want them to do the same in the West Bank. Okay, but what if Hamas 2.0 forms there?

I mean to displacing the Palestinian population and building new settlements for Jewish settlers. It is an aggressive attitude that seems to have the goal of taking over the entire West Bank at some point. 

It is true what you said about allowing a Palestinian state. war between the two countries would be almost certain, but stole their land legitimate the terrorism

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I mean to displacing the Palestinian population and building new settlements for Jewish settlers. It is an aggressive attitude that seems to have the goal of taking over the entire West Bank at some point. 

I agree that they need to stop settlement expansion and perhaps even dismantle the newest settlements.

But if you listen to that Netanyahu intetrview I posted, he says that if some 2 state solution is reached, some of those Israeli settlements will simply become part of Palestine. Jews can also live in Palestine like how Arabs can live in Israel now. Basically, settlers are making a gamble that they might end up being citizens of a future Palestine.

But I agree they need to stop with funding new settlements because it only aggrivates the issue. Israel is making a mistake when they encourage the most right-wing Zionists to build new settlement. Those far-right Zionists are batshit crazy and genocidal themselves. They would love to rob the Palestinians of all their land.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I agree that they need to stop settlement expansion and perhaps even dismantle the newest settlements.

But if you listen to that Netanyahu intetrview I posted, he says that if some 2 state solution is reached, some of those Israeli settlements will simply become part of Palestine. Jews can also live in Palestine like how Arabs can live in Israel now. Basically, settlers are making a gamble that they might end up being citizens of a future Palestine.

Did he tell the PA that that the reason why he was expanding the settlements was to promote ethnonational integration in Israel?

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But I agree they need to stop with funding new settlements because it only aggrivates the issue

If Israel were not expanding, it would be the party that is completely right in this conflict, but by expanding it justifies Hamas as legitimate defense. The big problem is that it cannot stop expanding because it seems that it is full of Jewish fanatics who have the project of a great Israel with biblical borders. This equates both sides as aggressive fanatics.

[Leo Gura]

This is a serious problem:

This kind of nationalism is toxic and has to be curbed somehow.

This is the equivalent of Israeli Nazis. This is why Jews are hated.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hello from Russia]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a serious problem:

 

Meh, why the world is like this

 

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Meh, why the world is like this

Everyone's just surviving.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ShaharA]

 

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, ShaharA said:

 

Looks legit.

Jihadists scored an own-goal.

Given that so many of these homemade rockets misfire, many other civilians losses in Gaza could also be wrongly blamed on Israel.

It makes sense that homemade rockets aren't reliable. And Gaza fires 1000s of them.

2000 rockets x 2% fail rate = 40 fuel bombs falling on a densely populated civilian area.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hatfort]

The World Health Organization has denounced that the bombed point was one of the 20 hospitals in the northern Gaza Strip that faced evacuation orders from the Israeli army. The evacuation order was impossible to comply with the actual insecurity, the critical condition of many patients and the emergency ambulance, personal, capacity of beds of the health system and alternative refuge for the desplaced.

It was a target and they probably thought that they could get away with bombing it saying they had asked to evacuate it before. But when they saw the international backlash, they pointed fingers at Hamas. I think they provided images of rockets, which later they deleted because the times didn't match. That's not very convincing.

A good analysis of the type of explosion comparing to weapons used by both sides would be very informative. I'm not an expert, but here some images. I'm waiting for a good analysis of that, I haven't found any. Hum...

Nevertheles, we can analyze things in the context. It's not believable that Hamas targeted their own, they have not done that before and they have no reason to do it. Something Netanjahu has already said is what they did, saying something about our sons and their sons. Bullshit, give me prove. He also said it was a misfire, which is not very believable either. It would be too much of a coincidence that a failed rocket would hit a target like this. Of all buildings, it had to hit exactly this one, and with such a destroying precision.

What about Israel government is lying theory? How crazy, they have never done that before. It's not like they are not bombing civilians in buildings anyway, it's precisely what they have been doing last three days.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

It's not believable that Hamas targeted their own

No one is saying Hamas targeted their own. Just think about the failure rates of rockets. Commercial rockets can have a failure rate of up to 5%. What do you think the failure rate of homemade water-pipe rockets is?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura