Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @zazen Israel is destroying buildings (with NO civilians who were asked to leave) to neutralize the maze of horror hamas built to the day israeli soldiers will get there. Its a land of traps hamas built. The problem is that if Israel wants to do that, it would have to destroy all the buildings in Gaza, or a large proportion. For them, the inhabitants must be evacuated, where will they go? An exit would have to be enabled for the refugees. How to differentiate the civilian population from the Hamas militiamen among these refugees? Hamas is not interested in direct combat, only terrorist actions . They will be hidden among the population. So, what will be the level of success of this operation? Edited October 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Leo Gura said: It would be nice if you guys could go meta and see how you are using morality to manipulate each other That's kinda true. There is no use in making anyone on the forum here feel guilty about supporting a side. The truth is we can’t do anything about it here. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) @Breakingthewall Yes this is literally about changing the landscape of gaza. So now they left to the south. Where all those civilians will live? Good question. I think the international community will have to be responsible for them too from now on if they are so important to them. Israel doesnt want to be their babysitter anymore. Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) Destroying that many residential buildings itself starts to feel like a war crime. 1 million people will be left homeless, jobless, schoolless, mosqueless. Total humanitarian disaster. How many terrorists will this create? Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Destroying that many residential buildings itself starts to feel like a war crime. 1 million people will be left homeless, jobless, schoolless, mosqueless. Total humanitarian disaster. How many terrorists will this create? Israel doesn't think like that. They think the more terrorists we create the more legitimacy we have to get rid of them by pushing them in Egypt. Mind you that Jews were pushed into Egypt by the Romans, now they are doing the same to others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, StarStruck said: They think the more terrorists we create the more legitimacy we have to get rid of them by pushing them in Egypt. I wonder if any of their leadership actually thinks like that. Frankly, it's hard for me to think like a diehard nationalist. It's such a grotesquely biased way to think. Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: I wonder if any of their leadership actually thinks like that. Governments think very different than you and me. They see the world as a great chess board and there is no morality in chess. People who don't understand it get plumbed or don't understand what is going on. Of course not all governments see it like that, the ones who don't they disappear. Jews have very low birth rate if there would be a two state solution, the Jews would be outbreed without no time. And Israel would become another Arab state. Of course right wing doesn't want peace because that kind of peace would give their enemy time to breed and create advantagous situation for their enemy. Edited October 17, 2023 by StarStruck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Breakingthewall Yes this is literally about changing the landscape of gaza. So now they left to the south. Where all those civilians will live? Good question. I think the international community will have to be responsible for them too from now on if they are so important to them. Israel doesnt want to be their babysitter anymore. How many Hamas militants will be captured? how to identify them? probably few. The destruction of Gaza is an operation of revenge, which is exactly what Hamas seeks, to make the world see the evil of Israel. In the end, Hamas wins. It is not a problem of morality, but of meeting objectives. Hamas' objectives are met, Israel's are not. The world will forget the killings in the kibbutzs in comparison with the disaster in Gaza 39 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Israel doesnt want to be their babysitter anymore. What do you think of expansionism in the West Bank? What would be the solution to that problem? Edited October 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Destroying that many residential buildings itself starts to feel like a war crime. 1 million people will be left homeless, jobless, schoolless, mosqueless. Total humanitarian disaster. How many terrorists will this create? Ok i understand. So maybe it is somehow selective to buildings that serves hamas directly or indirectly. Maybe. I hope. I dont know. What i do know is that the air strikes this time are far more broad than in any operation israel did in the past and part of that is to neutralize hamas's traps he putted all over gaza. Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, StarStruck said: They see the world as a great chess board and there is no morality in chess. There are still limits to their ruthlessness. One would hope. Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, StarStruck said: Governments think very different than you and me. They see the world as a great chess board and there is no morality in chess. It depends on the person in charge. For bibi thats maybe true. But he is not the only one who decide now because during the war the cabinet is the responsible and all its members have the same power. Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) This is similar to the towers. The Islamists, with minimal expenditure, stir up the hornet's nest and then sit back and wait. The stupid bear begins to blow at everyone except them, who laugh watching it and see its objectives achieved: radicalization of Islam, division, war. Edited October 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: It depends on the person in charge. For bibi thats maybe true. But he is not the only one who decide now because during the war the cabinet is the responsible and all its members have the same power. Hamas is so stupid that they played in the hand of Bibi. That is why I said from day 1 that this surprise attack doesn’t make sense while Israel has the best intel in the world and Hamas on of the lowest IQ in the world. He allowed it so he could use it to unite Israel. This is a classic tactic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) The problem of terrorism requires a laser-targeted approach. Shooting wildly in all directions ends up serving the terrorists. The problem is that Israel shoots wildly, creates terrorists, those terrorists lash out, Israel is hurt and blames the terrorists, shoots wildly at them, hurts many innocents, which creates more terrorists. And the cycle just feeds itself. Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, StarStruck said: Hamas is so stupid that they played in the hand of Bibi. That is why I said from day 1 that this surprise attack doesn’t make sense while Israel has the best intel in the world and Hamas on of the lowest IQ in the world. He allowed it so he could use it to unite Israel. This is a classic tactic. I don't believe bibi would do such a deliberate thing like that. He is capable of many things but this sounds too far. But he indeed has an interest to keep hamas strong so he did it indirectly. Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @zazen Israel is destroying buildings (with NO civilians who were asked to leave) to neutralize the maze of horror hamas built to the day israeli soldiers will get there. Its a land of traps hamas built. Self defence doesn't mean exterminate - which is what cutting water food and electricity covertly does including not allowing aid. If that level of self defence is justified then by that definition one could justify the holocasut as a defence against the ''perceived'' financial terrorism imposed on Europeans via interest based loans that were given at the hands of Jewish money lenders. We can keep stretching the definition of self defence to absurdity. Self defence becomes laughable when it crosses the line from penalisation to extermination of the one who caused harm. For example, a woke lefty wanting to cancel someone for not using the correct pronoun or in this case level a area more denser than Tokyo half of which have children. Its not just a population, their refugees and children. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) How are Palestinians ever going to recover their homes? They mostly live in high-rise condos. Once that building is bombed, it won't be built back for many years. Recovering your home there will be impossible because even if new buildings are built they will not be identical to the old ones and probably more expensive than the old ones. So it effectively becomes another dislocation/Nakhba situation. This is not like farmland which you can easily return to. Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) @zazen Israel asked them to evacuade to the south where there they HAVE water. And until then they can definitly buy along the way. Dont be so black and white. Its a complex thing you are not in a well organized temple of moral right now this is not realistic. Dont judge israel so fast without learning its strategy. Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 I don't think Israel knows what it is doing, they are improvising in a situation of trauma that is softening as the days go by. They saw the need for an immediate and strong reaction, but as time goes by, minds become balanced and they will see that the destruction of Gaza is useless and works against them. We will probably see a cessation of bombing soon. It would be the most reasonable thing since it will only bring them problems without any benefit, and the scale of revenge is already more or less balanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: The problem of terrorism requires a laser-targeted approach. Shooting wildly in all directions ends up serving the terrorists. The problem is that Israel shoots wildly, creates terrorists, those terrorists lash out, Israel is hurt and blames the terrorists, shoots wildly at them, hurts many innocents, which creates more terrorists. And the cycle just feeds itself. This 100% Even to the North, Hamas fired two rockets into a empty farm area not to kill but more as a sign of solidarity to the Palestinian side that we are with you, and as a cautionary warning to Israel to not be too heavy handed - but they overreacted and started going for it as well as attacking Syrian airports. @Nivsch Israel don't have strategy, they are flustered and knee jerk reacting to everything at the moment which is suicidal. Those drunk on power aren't rational and need to save face and position - Bibi built his identiy off being the strong man and saviour of Israel and will look to maintain that to distract from domestic issues. If Israel provokes Hamas from the South, Hezbollah from the North, Syria from the side and Palestinians from within thats a 4 front war they will lose without the US and allies getting involved which will then involve Iran, Russia and Turkey into a much bigger issue. Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
