New War In Israel / Gaza

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can condemn the actions of Hamas and at the same time condemn the fact of cutting off electricity, water and medicine in a big city. If Israel were not being watched, we would see what treatment the "human animals" would receive.

That's part of war.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Inliytened1 Only here for real love as long as it is meant, I've a lot of things going on right now, but I appreciate your attention.

[bambi]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@zazen is condemning Israel's response as barbaric.   And im telling you it is a valid response to what has transpired.   No one can change the past or where we are today.  And the bottom line is Israel was attacked without warning and hundreds were killed.   Their response was warranted.  

 

Yeah this view is all too myopic for me

 

The only possible interpretation and conclusions are the ones I gave before:

 

Ultimately The Islamic states should recognize the orignal borders, Israel should give back the settlements, everyone apolgoixe and get on with life,

 

OR

 

Israel combines palestine into a single state with equal rights

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

@zazen is condemning Israel's response as barbaric.   And im telling you it is a valid response to what has transpired.   No one can change the past or where we are today.  And the bottom line is Israel was attacked without warning and hundreds were killed.   Their response waa warranted.  

Yes, it is clear that you are on Israel's team because it is your side, so everything Israel does is fine, and when they repeat here 80 times the issue of expansion in the West Bank, you tiptoe over it, since it is not convenient to maintain your line of thought, you do not investigate it, you are not interested in that. You only focus on Hamas murders, and because of them you see it as justified to cut off electricity and medicines in a hospital. well, it's typical, this is why the world is the way it is

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, bambi said:

Israel combines palestine into a single state with equal rights

Thats impossible 

1 minute ago, bambi said:

Israel should give back the settlements, everyone apolgoixe and get on with life,

That's the only possible solution, but it's also impossible, sadly

[bambi]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Thats impossible 

That's the only possible solution, but it's also impossible, sadly

Why are they impossible, they seem like sensible solutions to  me

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@zazen My ego felt hurt today, but I had the power to let go, reminding me of what is true.

I feel absolutely at peace now, it takes a lot of nothing to release all the nothing, especially when immersed in fiction, I concede.

We love fiction like mice love cheese. But if we all focus on love, we might be able to go beyond and reach a place of pure sincerity.

 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, it is clear that you are on Israel's team because it is your side, so everything Israel does is fine, and when they repeat here 80 times the issue of expansion in the West Bank, you tiptoe over it, since it is not convenient to maintain your line of thought, you do not investigate it, you are not interested in that. You only focus on Hamas murders, and because of them you see it as justified to cut off electricity and medicines in a hospital. well, it's typical, this is why the world is the way it is

I still see the Jews as slaves in Egypt.  So yes.  But at the same time, I see the hundreds of innocent women and children slain by Hamas.  That is real.  And none of you guys can make it unreal.   The truth is, none of you have any idea what you are talking about.   I served in the military during desert storm, before you guys were a thought in the dark.  So I know a bit about what war is.  And you guys talk a big talk.  But in the end Israel has to defend what is theirs.  @bambi can say they got the land under false pretenses and all that - but none of that matters.   It is the Jew's land and they aren't just gonna give it away. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

I still see the Jews as slaves in Egypt.  So yes.  But at the same time, I see the hundreds of innocent women and children slain by Hamas.  That is real.  And none of you guys can make it unreal.   The truth is, none of you have any idea what you are talking about.   I served in the military during desert storm, before you guys were a thought in the dark.  So I know a bit about what war is.  And you guys talk a big talk.  But jn the end Israem has to defend what is theirs.  @bambi can say they got the land under false pretenses and all that - but none of that matters.   It is the Jew's land and they aren't just gonna give it away. 

You havent actually specifically addressed any of my points lol

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, bambi said:

Why are they impossible, they seem like sensible solutions to  me

Because deep down, the Israelis, with some exceptions, are Zionists, and they want "the great Israel" that is, all of Palestine, the biblical limits. because you think they have never accepted the two-state solution and have almost never dismantled settlements. If they do, a mass of Hamas-level fanatics will arise, but Jews who think that their divine mission is the expansion of Israel. There are guys like that within the government. they are crazy, that's why there is a war. It's not a war for resources like Ukrainia, it's a war for tribal identities, religious craziness

[zazen]

19 minutes ago, bambi said:

Why are they impossible, they seem like sensible solutions to  me

Giving settlements back is difficult because the settlers epitomise the most extreme segment of the zionist movement, with the highest birth rate and demographic future. Thats a huge voting bloc the establishment don't want to upset, but that Isreali's are aware of that are causing many issues with Palestinians in the West Bank and which only provoke Hamas more.

 

A lot of Isrealis just want to live in peace but a sizable portion also perpetuate hatred, just like among the Palestinians you have extremists who want to play zero sum games. 

 

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/2/28/23617766/israeli-settler-rampage-palestine-violence-government

 

From Wiki: 

Palestinians are the target of violence by Jewish Israeli settlers and their supporters, predominantly in the West Bank.[3] In November 2021, Defense Minister Benny Gantz discussed the steep rise in the number of incidents between settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank, many of which result from attacks by residents of illegal settler outposts on Palestinians from neighboring villages.[4]

Palestinian police are forbidden from reacting to acts of violence by Israeli settlers, a fact which diminishes their credibility among Palestinians.[5] UN figures from 2011 showed that 90% of complaints filed against settlers by Palestinians with the Israeli police never led to indictment

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[zazen]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I still see the Jews as slaves in Egypt.  So yes.  But at the same time, I see the hundreds of innocent women and children slain by Hamas.  That is real.  And none of you guys can make it unreal.   The truth is, none of you have any idea what you are talking about.   I served in the military during desert storm, before you guys were a thought in the dark.  So I know a bit about what war is.  And you guys talk a big talk.  But jn the end Israem has to defend what is theirs.  @bambi can say they got the land under false pretenses and all that - but none of that matters.   It is the Jew's land and they aren't just gonna give it away. 

 

We don't know what we're talking about? Or you just cant logically respond to whats being talked about. No one's saying Jews don't have a right to exist or live there, it just shouldn't come at the expense of others living there inhumanely, especially those that were there when they got there.

Scott Ritter also served in the Military during desert storm, yet he's come to a much more humane and rational view on the issue of Israel / Palestine.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, zazen said:

figures from 2011 showed that 90% of complaints filed against settlers by Palestinians with the Israeli police never led to indictment

Yes, an intolerable level of injustice and abuse, which the US unconditionally supports, and which causes humiliation to all Muslims in the world and leads to the radicalization of Islamic countries. American foreign policy is one of great evil. There is only one objective, profit, and fuck the rest. As Nuland said, fuck Europe, and she could also say, fuck everyone except us. That's the philosophy of USA.

US  has been a positive influence and is a great country but more and more he seems like an obese child who wants all the candy for himself, with absolutely nothing else on his mind.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, zazen said:

Giving settlements back is difficult because the settlers epitomise the most extreme segment of the zionist movement, with the highest birth rate and demographic future.

Solution:

Catapult dead skunks into settlements.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, zazen said:

 

We don't know what we're talking about? Or you just cant logically respond to whats being talked about. No one's saying Jews don't have a right to exist or live there, it just shouldn't come at the expense of others living there inhumanely, especially those that were there when they got there.

Scott Ritter also served in the Military during desert storm, yet he's come to a much more humane and rational view on the issue of Israel / Palestine.

 

 

I can respond just fine- you just don't agree.   I believe Israel's response was justified. As discussed, collateral damage should be minimized but that is difficult to do in this particular terrain.  So you have qualms about it.  But again, the state of Israel was attacked first- with many innocent women and children being killed or kidnapped.   So you can't justify this.  

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

guys you are like broken records at this time

you won‘t convince each other

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

guys you are like broken records at this time

you won‘t convince each other

But you love it ?

[zazen]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

I am actually optimistic for the future of the region but only if the Israelis and the US are actually serious about making tangible change.

The real struggle is not Palestine vs Israel. It's those who advocate for peace inside Palestine and Israel camps vs those who advocate for war inside Palestine and Israel campa.

Very well put.

Saying that, who has more say and sway in the peace process - those that have more freedom of expression and more democratic power to vote in leadership and policies that are pro peace, or a people with no democratic vote or voice towards their repressive leadership. The process has to start with the ones with more power, but end with those they wish to have peace with.

Side note: the same system that allows for freedom of expression also has more sophistication to propagandise its very people to be oppressive to others. 

[Nivsch]

@zazen Israel is destroying buildings (with NO civilians who were asked to leave) to neutralize the maze of horror hamas built to the day israeli soldiers will get there. Its a land of traps hamas built. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

48 minutes ago, bambi said:

Why are they impossible, they seem like sensible solutions to  me

Because of ego.  That's why I didn't address your points.  Why do you think we are here at war.  Because of primitive societies.  That's why.  Your proposals are for a world far more advanced than where we are, sadly.