New War In Israel / Gaza

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

@Inliytened1 

Did you read his biography though?

I mean, there is so much more to learn from said monsters than from said angels.

You'll hardly swallow the pill that he was more of a human set into dogmatism rather than an evil psychopath monster.

In fact, I believe he was driven by a biased love for the unity of all Germans, wishing to elevate his nation as the supreme one and promoting the idea of Germans possessing superior genetics. I find this very interesting.

Apparently he never killed anyone with his own hands either. ( Not entirely sure, but we didn't find any record of such to my knowing )

 

Hitler or Ghandi?

I read Ghandis.  I did not want to read Mein Kampf because im Jewish and it was just too much for me.  

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Inliytened1 

Why do you think it's good to identify of being into an imaginary tribe.

I had a 'Jewish' friend who told me he was Jewish by birth, but that he didn't recognize any of it. He might have put it this way: 'I'm not caring for any miserable identity game economy.'

Obviously I fell instantly in love - I even questioned my sexuality at that time, someone with higher agency and love is so rare and precious in this world.

[zazen]

@Inliytened1 This video may shed light on how Israel is in the wrong.

 

 

Explaining the situation isn't justification for it. There is no justification for innocent people to be killed on either side, but the response is disproportionate and inhumane.

 

War is war but man is not just a beast, although war can make a beast of him. We don't live according in the way of old where might is right and where conquering land is acceptable any more since boundaries have been drawn up and are to be respected by international law, including the boundaries of Israel's existence. By that same token we should also respect the international law that explicitly defines war crimes and genocide and not be selective and give certain countries impunity on transgressing those laws.

 

Gradations of International law

1. Collective punishment

2. War crime

3. Crime against humanity

4. Genocide

 

Israel's disproportionate reaction (just as America's disproportionate reaction to 9/11) would fall between 3 and 4. Why? Two statements and two actions of the Israeli government illuminate this. 

Statements

1. Netanyahu : ''We have to prepare for a long war.''

2. Defence minister: ''We are cutting off all food, water, electricity and fuel to Gaza.''

Actions

1. Telling Gazans to evacuate in 24 hours  (when in hospital you have new borns supplied oxygen etc you can't uproot those babies as theres no set up to take them to)

2. Denying aid to the Gazans via Egypt's border and not cooperating (even bombing some Gazan's who were evacuating and following the orders)

 

Put those statements and actions together and what do you have? If that isn't genocide its clearly a crime against humanity. 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

@Inliytened1 

Why do you think it's good to identify of being into an imaginary tribe.

I had a 'Jewish' friend who told me he was Jewish by birth, but that he didn't recognize any of it. He might have put it this way: 'I'm not caring for any miserable identity game economy.'

Obviously I fell instantly in love - I even questioned my sexuality at that time, someone with higher agency and love is so rare and precious in this world.

I don't subscribe to the Jewish God because I've found Absolute Truth.  But I still feel a loyalty to Judaism because it is my heritage. 

[Inliytened1]

25 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Inliytened1 This video may shed light on how Israel is in the wrong.

 

 

Explaining the situation isn't justification for it. There is no justification for innocent people to be killed on either side, but the response is disproportionate and inhumane.

 

War is war but man is not just a beast, although war can make a beast of him. We don't live according in the way of old where might is right and where conquering land is acceptable any more since boundaries have been drawn up and are to be respected by international law, including the boundaries of Israel's existence. By that same token we should also respect the international law that explicitly defines war crimes and genocide and not be selective and give certain countries impunity on transgressing those laws.

 

 

 

 

You guys are really over exaggerating.  If it were the US that was attacked you wouldn't feel the same.   Israel has been persecuted for thousands of years.   If it attacks its oppressors just because it now has the superior military and the US backing you all think its being a bully.  But put yourself in the Jews shoes for a few minutes and you might feel differently. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[HMD]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But put yourself in the Jews shoes for a few minutes and you might feel

Okay, I did that I understand how Israel is just attacking its oppressors. But you can not justify war crimes and genocidal behavior as self-defense. 

[zazen]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You guys are really over exaggerating.  If it were the US that was attacked you wouldn't feel the same.   Israel has been persecuted for thousands of years.   If it attacks its oppressors just because it now has the superior military and the US backing you all think its being a bully.  But put yourself in the Jews shoes for a few minutes and you might feel

Isreals reaction is over exaggerating. Israel hasn't existed for thousands of years so how can it be persecuted for such time? Don't conflate Jews with Zionism.

Zionism doesn't just believe in the Jews right to exist, but for a state to exist in land not of their own and for that population to be exiled from it.

Jews and muslims lived peacefully before for thousands of years - it was the Christian West that persecuted them and put them far away from themselves in fact. 

 

If US was attacked a just response is warranted, but not a disproportionate one such as the reaction to 9/11 and the destruction of the middle east which has only spawned the continuing chaos we see now and manifests itself brutally in the form of radicals on all sides going at it with each other. You don't think Isreals over reaction here won't do the same and keep it in perpetual turmoil?  Netenyahu thrives off the existence of an enemy as do extreme islamists, they need each other to justify their existence, objectives, and imbue their lives with meaning.

 

Gradations of International law

1. Collective punishment

2. War crime

3. Crime against humanity

4. Genocide

 

Israel's disproportionate reaction (just as America's disproportionate reaction to 9/11) would fall between 3 and 4. Why? Two statements and two actions of the Israeli government illuminate this. 

Statements

1. Netanyahu : ''We have to prepare for a long war.''

2. Defence minister: ''We are cutting off all food, water, electricity and fuel to Gaza.''

Actions

1. Telling 1 million Gazans to evacuate in 24 hours  (when in hospital you have new borns supplied oxygen etc you can't uproot those babies as theres no set up to take them to)

2. Denying aid to the Gazans via Egypt's border and not cooperating (even bombing some Gazans who were evacuating and following the orders)

 

Put those statements and actions together and what do you have? If that isn't genocide it's clearly a crime against humanity and if one isn't able to admit that they are morally blind.

 

''Islam saved Jewry. This is an unpopular, discomforting claim in the modern world. But it is a historical truth. The argument for it is double. First, in 570 CE, when the Prophet Mohammad was born, the Jews and Judaism were on the way to oblivion. And second, the coming of Islam saved them, providing a new context in which they not only survived, but flourished, laying foundations for subsequent Jewish cultural prosperity - also in Christendom - through the medieval period into the modern world.''

 

Sourced from a jewish site before you jump in to say its biased. Here the link: https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-for-the-jews-1.33597

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[HMD]

@zazen But see, the Jews/Israel were persecuted for thousands of years, so it's okay if they do these things. 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, HMD said:

Okay, I did that I understand how Israel is just attacking its oppressors. But you can not justify war crimes and genocidal behavior as self-defense. 

An eye for an eye brother. 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, zazen said:

Isreals reaction is over exaggerating. Israel hasn't existed for thousands of years so how can it be persecuted for such time? Don't conflate Jews with Zionism.

Zionism doesn't just believe in the Jews right to exist, but for a state to exist in land not of their own and for that population to be exiled from it.

Jews and muslims lived peacefully before for thousands of years - it was the Christian West that persecuted them and put them far away from themselves in fact. 

 

If US was attacked a just response is warranted, but not a disproportionate one such as the reaction to 9/11 and the destruction of the middle.

 

Gradations of International law

1. Collective punishment

2. War crime

3. Crime against humanity

4. Genocide

 

Israel's disproportionate reaction (just as America's disproportionate reaction to 9/11) would fall between 3 and 4. Why? Two statements and two actions of the Israeli government illuminate this. 

Statements

1. Netanyahu : ''We have to prepare for a long war.''

2. Defence minister: ''We are cutting off all food, water, electricity and fuel to Gaza.''

Actions

1. Telling Gazans to evacuate in 24 hours  (when in hospital you have new borns supplied oxygen etc you can't uproot those babies as theres no set up to take them to)

2. Denying aid to the Gazans via Egypt's border and not cooperating (even bombing some Gazans who were evacuating and following the orders)

 

Put those statements and actions together and what do you have? If that isn't genocide it's clearly a crime against humanity and if one isn't able to admit that they are morally blind.

 

I have one sentence for you:

 War is hell.

If you strike first be prepared to be decimated.

[HMD]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

An eye for an eye brother. 

What about turning the other cheek? 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, HMD said:

What about turning the other cheek? 

Would you?  Much easier said than done- and when you have a country to lead, it's not so easy to be weak - in fact it is untenable.  

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[HMD]

@Inliytened1 I know it's not easy. Leadership is difficult. But having the collective good of the world in mind, respecting human lives, and having dignity is essential, IMO. 

If Hamas, a terrorist organization, is killing civilians then you have a responsibility as the head of a state to have dignity and respect the international law. 

Or else, you are just the same as those terrorists. 

[zazen]

26 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I have one sentence for you:

 War is hell.

If you strike first be prepared to be decimated.

Is that all your response is? No recognition of the facts of international law or that Israel has transgressed? Or the ability to condemn it as people condemn the Hamas attack and rightly so. 

Being a moderator of a forum priding itself on self development and with ''Wisdom. Truth. Love' in your bio would expect more brother.

Didn't Israel strike first in the form of occupation and death by a thousand cuts in their treatment of Palestinians including in the West Bank which is supposedly where they should be able to live in peace? This video sheds light on life in the West bank.

 

Can't expect to treat humans like animals then call them that (as the Isreal defence minister called them) when they lash out in barbaric acts such as the Hamas attack and then play victim. 

The jews deserve to be protected for what they've historically suffered but not in a way that causes suffering to to others as if to be some cosmic karmic retribution to people who not only didn't cause them harm or extreme suffering ie holocaust but who protected the jews - if one only reads history.

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, HMD said:

@Inliytened1 I know it's not easy. Leadership is difficult. But having the collective good of the world in mind, respecting human lives, and having dignity is essential, IMO. 

If Hamas, a terrorist organization, is killing civilians then you have a responsibility as the head of a state to have dignity and respect the international law. 

Or else, you are just the same as those terrorists. 

What would you have them do differently?  Gaza is filled with both civilians and the bad guys.  Would you have not stayed with air attacks?  Those air attacks cannot really discriminate because of the small area.  So what would you have done differently as the military commander?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

36 minutes ago, zazen said:

Is that all your response is? No recognition of the facts of international law or that Israel has transgressed? Or the ability to condemn it as people condemn the Hamas attack and rightly so. 

Being a moderator of a forum priding itself on self development and with ''Wisdom. Truth. Love' in your bio would expect more brother.

Didn't Israel strike first in the form of occupation and death by a thousand cuts in their treatment of Palestinians including in the West Bank which is supposedly where they should be able to live in peace? This video sheds light on life in the West bank.

 

Can't expect to treat humans like animals then call them that (as the Isreal defence minister called them) when they lash out in barbaric acts such as the Hamas attack and then play victim. 

The jews deserve to be protected for what they've historically suffered but not in a way that causes suffering to to others as if to be some cosmic karmic retribution to people who not only didn't cause harm or extreme suffering (holocaust) but who protected the jews if one only reads history.

The Hamas were not treated like animals.    I'm really sorry to break this to you but all they want is to take over the Israeli land.   So when they attack, now you act like we provoked them or we forced them into this position.   I beg to differ.   I'll ask you the same question I asked him - how would you react as General after your land was infiltrated and over a thousand people assassinated?  Would you sit back and say it's OK because these weren't the people that originally persecuted the Jews?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jodistrict]

36 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

An eye for an eye brother. 

This was actually a progressive rule of moderation at a time when revenge would result in disproportionate destruction.   It is ironic that the same people who claim the Bible as evidence of land ownership ignore its rule of moderation.  And “group punishment” is another regression rolling back thousands of years of human progess.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

This was actually a progressive rule of moderation at a time when revenge would result in disproportionate destruction.   It is ironic that the same people who claim the Bible as evidence of land ownership ignore its rule of moderation.  And “group punishment” is another regression rolling back thousands of years of human progess.

Yeah yeah.   I know it's not evident of an advanced society.   But terrorist organizations have to be dealt with and we are not near a society where they don't exist. 

[Leo Gura]

It would be nice if you guys could go meta and see how you are using morality to manipulate each other.

[Nivsch]

@zazen I want to show you an another perspective to consider:

The six-days war as a self defense operation:

https://israelforever.org/interact/blog/international_right_self_defense_six_day_war/

See how bigger the enemies army is in comparison to Israel, which made an existential threat on israel in yom kippur war.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Nivsch