New War In Israel / Gaza

[Hardkill]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not true. I have seen a wide variety of perspectives in the corporate media.

Medhi Hassan, for example, is part of Western corporate medIa. He is very sympathetic to the Palestinians and harsh on Zionists.

The media is doing a fine job reporting on this issue. All perspectives can be found if you just bother to look for them.

MSNBC is more liberal or left-wing than CNN, PBS, and NBC/CNBC, right?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hardkill

[bambi]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hamas needs to be eliminated as precisely as possible with attention to the least possible civilian deaths.

Then end to settlement expansion and negotiation of peace deal.

Why not destory Israel instead? Im re-reading this thread and it seems you think Israel are the bullies here and cornering hamas into an impossible situation, so Israel should go?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, bambi said:

Why not destory Israel instead?

That's not gonna happen.

[bambi]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not gonna happen.

IF you had your way, metahpysically, and it could play out anyway you wished in an instant, how would you write the script ?

[Inliytened1]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Unless they are planning terror attacks, nothing.

Unfortunately I think Israel is gonna create such a bloodbath in Gaza that we will have terrorist attacks in the US for a decade to come. An overreaction from Israel can easily create a new Osama Bin Laden character who will want to punish the US for supporting Israel's bloodbath.

This is gonna be such a mess for a decade to come.

Israel has no choice but to exert massive force on its opponents.  It has been persecuted for so long that eventually if this is not done it will never be taken seriously.   Israel is tired of it at this point, and I don't blame them.  As far as the US - if they go after us the repercussions will be even worse.  If you don't instill fear into your adversaries they will continue to bully you.  The threat of terrorist attacks hasn't gone away since 911 and it never will.  If anything- it should wake us up that it could happen at any time so that we increase our awareness and preparedness. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[bambi]

But what has happened, Isreal was given land by the UK ina territory that didnt belong to the UK. The surrounding nations went to war with this, and then in these wars Isreael grabbed more land, and in these occupied lands abuse and mistreat non-israel people?

[bambi]

Why cant Israel and palestine become one nation and all palestinains get equal rights and passports??!!!!

[Karmadhi]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not gonna happen.

There was a terrorist attack a few hours ago in the European Capital where I live, the killer posted a video saying he is avenging muslims and is an ISIS member. 2 confirmed dead so far by shooting, he is not yet caught.

I am hearing theories that it is done on purpose by the West in order to remove sympathy from palestine.

Personally I think it is just a terrorist reaction to what is going on there, since my city is the capital of the EU which supports Israel.

What you think?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, bambi said:

Why cant Israel and palestine become one nation and all palestinains get equal rights and passports??!!!!

Because they aren't one nation.    They have different religious views and nationalist views. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[bambi]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Because they aren't one nation.    They have different religious views and nationalist views. 

So is the uk and america lol

[Scholar]

This is how an adult engages with the topic:

 

I want you to watch this and compare this to how you engage with this topic. In general, what I see in here is constant moralization, blaming-games, and reactionary-outrage. This is not productive and will not help anyone, neither the israelis nor the gazans.

You have to be mindful of the social dynamics so they do not capture you. You have a basic moral duty to not make this situation worse than it already is, which you do when you ignorantly continue to stoke the same flames that infected you. It is blinding you to understanding the topic, and if you as a bystander cannot have an objective view of this situation, how can we hope that either side in this conflict ever will?

As someone who is following Leo's content, you should have far higher expectations for yourself.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is such a complex, non black-and-white issue

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

True historically, but right now it's quite black and white, the reality is that Israeli expansionism is a continued act of war and an en abuse. It is colonialism, subjugating another nation. and US unconditional support is the same as always, US cares little about justice and a lot about its interests, which are basically influence what is basically money.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

@Scholar why don't you just say it yourself without making us listen to a long drawn out video.  What I see is ego trying to act like it's better and more intelligent than everyone else here.  Here, we are having a debate - and it can sometimes get heated and or biased.  That is the nature of the beast.  If you want to act all saintly, then rather than posting cowardly videos that you didn't make to point us to something- how about you say it with your own words.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Scholar why don't you just say it yourself without making us listen to a long drawn out video.  What I see is ego trying to act like it's better and more intelligent than everyone else here.  Here, we are having a debate - and it can sometimes get heated and or biased.  That is the nature of the beast.  If you want to act all saintly, then rather than posting cowardly videos that you didn't make to point us to something- say it with your own words.

I am no longer wasting my time trying to educate children. I made all those points already in this thread.

 

If you cannot see how immature people in this thread engage with this topic, I don't know what to say. The abysmal quality of discussion here is something that makes me feel like I am wasting my time on this forum in general.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Scholar

[Hatfort]

What is that excuse that they told civilians to move to the South so they could kill Hamas militants? Don't you see the obvious flaws of that? Here some.

It's an overpopulated area, there is no possible logistics to move all of them to other areas in such a short time. Where will they stay in the South, it's also overpopulated. They have never been allowed to leave Gaza, and they aren't yet. They are already fucked up, they have nowhere to go. Civilians moving to the South have been bombed too.

Why do you think Hamas militants would stay in a place that Israel has already announced they are going to bomb? That would be plainly stupid. You would have to fire them by surprise. Announcing the attack on a building from a megaphone and telling civilians to get out slowly and in order, is that the way? Well, what's the flaw there? Only civilians, please. Hamas militants stay there so we bomb you. It's stupid as fuck to suggest anything like that. In that case, they would be destroying empty buildings, which is quite bad too. Where are they supposed to live? People need shelter to live, you know? The truth is worse, they are knowingly destroying buildings with people in them, so many of them.

Israel has never cared about Gaza's inhabitants and civilians. We know that they have systematically killed them in their daily life and in peaceful demonstrations like the Freedom March shown in Abby Martin's documentary. There were no militias, no weapons, no threats at all there, just people protesting in the border, and they were shot from a distance by Israeli army snipers. They purposefully killed 183 civilians, including children, medics, and press people. Israel's government has never cared about the civilians of Gaza, so don't believe do now, even if they say so. Their recent past actions show the contrary, they are doing exactly what they want now, killing them.

There are images of Zionists asking for the extermination of all of Gaza on camera. That's what is happening, It is a genocide.

[PurpleTree]

18 minutes ago, bambi said:

Why cant Israel and palestine become one nation and all palestinains get equal rights and passports??!!!!

I think israelis are kind of afraid that arabs would have more children, maybe even become a majority and at some point make it more difficult for jews or even kind of self destruct the state through democracy 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I am no longer wasting my time trying to educate children. I made all those points already in this thread.

 

If you cannot see how immature people in this thread engage with this topic, I don't know what to say. The abysmal quality of discussion here is something that makes me feel like I am wasting my time on this forum in general.

The value of this forum isn't in its political section.  

[Leo Gura]

You're not gonna find a better political forum on the web. You guys don't appreicate what we got here and how toxic things are out there.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, nuwu said:

You should delete the political section to be fair.

Then maybe you should get rid of your pinky finger.  You don't need it to hold a cup ?

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

What is that excuse that they told civilians to move to the South so they could kill Hamas militants? Don't you see the obvious flaws of that? Here some.

It's an overpopulated area, there is no possible logistics to move all of them to other areas in such a short time. Where will they stay in the South, it's also overpopulated. They have never been allowed to leave Gaza, and they aren't yet. They are already fucked up, they have nowhere to go. Civilians moving to the South have been bombed too.

Why do you think Hamas militants would stay in a place that Israel has already announced they are going to bomb? That would be plainly stupid. You would have to fire them by surprise. Announcing the attack on a building from a megaphone and telling civilians to get out slowly and in order, is that the way? Well, what's the flaw there? Only civilians, please. Hamas militants stay there so we bomb you. It's stupid as fuck to suggest anything like that. In that case, they would be destroying empty buildings, which is quite bad too. Where are they supposed to live? People need shelter to live, you know? The truth is worse, they are knowingly destroying buildings with people in them, so many of them.

Israel has never cared about Gaza's inhabitants and civilians. We know that they have systematically killed them in their daily life and in peaceful demonstrations like the Freedom March shown in Abby Martin's documentary. There were no militias, no weapons, no threats at all there, just people protesting in the border, and they were shot from a distance by Israeli army snipers. They purposefully killed 183 civilians, including children, medics, and press people. Israel's government has never cared about the civilians of Gaza, so don't believe do now, even if they say so. Their recent past actions show the contrary, they are doing exactly what they want now, killing them.

There are images of Zionists asking for the extermination of all of Gaza on camera. That's what is happening, It is a genocide.

I explained this in a previous post.

Israel doesn't actually expect Hamas militants to stay and for the entire northern region to be clear of all civilians. They'd like for as many civilians as possible to leave the area before a ground invasion. If Hamas leaves too, so be it. The major objective is to destroy Hamas infrastructure / weapon stockpiles without a dense urban ground war and many casualties on both sides.