New War In Israel / Gaza

[gambler]

1 hour ago, Nabd said:

True but a big reason for high casualties without anyone caring is that western powers would say "its a civil war, not our problem", even though it is.

While in Palestine the situation is Jews vs Muslims or Jews vs Arabs. Muslims care about the perpetrator being not a Muslim and especially a Jew is problematic, more than the US for example.

 

Yea America has a population of over 330 million. Jews have a population of 15 million. Because of this, Americans are multi-cultural, from many ethnic backgrounds, without any collective aspiration to a foreign policy goal (liberals and conservatives are always split on nearly everything). However, Jews are one tribe, with a majority being Zionists--the historical right to establish a Jewish state on a southern levantine land because Holocaust and our ancestors over 2000 years ago. You are simply not going to get the same response to a government that represents a variety of diverse people vs a government that represents a homogeneous people who all have Zionism uniting them.

Edited October 15, 2023 by gambler

[Jacob Morres]

Damn as a brown American i hope I don't have to deal with post 9/11 type racism again 

[hoodrow trillson]

Just now, Jacob Morres said:

Damn as a brown American i hope I don't have to deal with post 9/11 type racism again 

Don't worry, you're just the flavor of the month.  In another month, it's back to the sCaRy southern border with migrants.  Then, it'll be the spooky asians and the Chinese.  After that, it'll be the creepy Russians and europeans.  Then back to black people, yada yada yada.  Same shit every damn year.    

 

[integration journey]

@Nabdi don’t know why but I want to thank you. It’s great seeing another Syrian on this forum! 

[gambler]

Just now, integration journey said:

@Nabdi don’t know why but I want to thank you. It’s great seeing another Syrian on this forum! 

+1.

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Don't worry, you're just the flavor of the month.  In another month, it's back to the sCaRy southern border with migrants.  Then, it'll be the spooky asians and the Chinese.  After that, it'll be the creepy Russians and europeans.  Then back to black people, yada yada yada.  Same shit every damn year.    

 

yes because...where are the aliens? They were supposed to be here, but they've been forgotten faster than Ukraine.

[eos_nyxia]

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura Oh man I wish you were right. The people who examine the dead bodies found signs of the most inhumane torture imaginable on many of the bodies. Rape and severed limbs definitely confirmed, all in a family unit. I will never look at the world the same.

If people read more history or talked to more people who had suffered brutal serious systematic trauma at a macro level (as opposed to just as an individual), would they still react and feel in this way? Like... "innocence lost"?

Sometimes I guess I don't understand.

Some of us know that the world has always been this way. Not just "knowing" on an intellectual level, but felt it too on an intuitive level. It's just a part of the truth of who we are as humanity, right here and right now.

[Hatfort]

The situation is horrible, the Israeli government is killing the population of Gaza indiscriminately. So many civilians and children are being killed. The harassing and killing is constant through the years though, but this is like a bigger one. The supply of electricity, medicines, water and food has been closed, it's a genocide. Palestinians in the West Bank live harassed and like second-class citizens too.

I had the chance to learn a bit more about history, about the Palestinian Yasser Arafat, leader of the OLP. Surprised to learn that this organization was secular, and they tried to promote the one secular country solution at first, without any distinction of religion in law. The Israeli government refused, the Zionist movement wants a Jewish country, so that wasn't it. The OLP finally accepted a two-state solution, with its difficulties and relocation problems, but, surprise, then the Zionists backed off that way. Why lose territory? We want it all for us. I guess they thought. The Israeli government keeps on its slow pace of violent erosion until Palestinians retaliate like a beaten dog would do, then the Israeli army goes hard claiming the right to self-defense. This cycle is not natural, is promoted with intention. Netanyahu has said he will never concede in anything.

The most surprising thing was to learn that Israeli intelligence was behind the creation of Hamas. Yasser Arafat, the OLP and Al Fatah had international recognition, with the Peace Nobel Prize included, so they couldn't let that go on. Israeli money was funneled into Hamas, which was explicitly religious and Muslim, unlike the previous ones, to build mosques and whatever they needed, this is documented because is recent history. It worked, through the years Hamas surpassed Al Fatah in popular support, and it is the number one political party. They became much more prone to violence and more religious too. The goal was to knock down Al Fatah, if the attempt something worse would rise as it did, it didn't matter because a more radical group would have it harder to get international support.

Yasser Arafat died in 2004 from a stroke. I haven't researched a lot, but I've read some articles that suggest that he was helped a bit to die, and levels of Polonium were found in his belongings. I wouldn't be surprised, not for anything Israel has one of the best army, intelligence and spying apparatus.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, Alex M said:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about the history of this conflict and the Israelis' land grabbing from the Palestinians. It was interesting to listen to the history side of things from an Israeli perspective.

 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/

 

[Lila9]

10 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Muslims don't give a shit about the wars among themselves or the concentration camps in China and the literal genocide of Muslims there. But if Israel does the slightest thing they go batshit crazy. Israel is such a convenient (political) scapegoat for Muslims.

This is so convenient to hate Jews. This is a long hatred since Muhammad's days.

If Palestine was "occupied" by Muslim Arabs from Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt they would never called this "occupation" and there were no need to "free Palestine".

My condolences to Israel and Jewish people that they have to deal with this shit, being one against all these Muslim countries that hate them so irrationally and consistently for merely existing.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Lila9

[Jayson G]

@Leo Gura if Biden sticks to his guns on supporting israel no matter what, how bad do you think that would be for usa in terms of living in usa safety, or how much would that affect matters in usa: people getting along, security, etc. 

I'm guessing that's to be seen, and hard to say how people will respond. I live in US and Im wondering how this could affect us citizen lives, moreso with internal matters

[lina]

@Socrates

On 10/14/2023 at 4:43 AM, Socrates said:

I've exhausted the topic. The Jews are at fault 100%. They should never been accepted in that in the first place. Not only have they abused the openness of the Arabs now they have the audacity to act like the victims while occupying stolen land.

If we even had footage of 10% of the ethnic cleansing that is currently happening, Israel would be treated as Hitler 2.0 like it is. If every day Israel beats and kills 1-2 Palestinians and rapes them, nobody sees it, when they fight back it's "terrorism".  
The only status quo is Palestinians in a jail (Gaza) and their lives are like hell since they're basically like prisoners of the Israelis, I would even justify the Hamas shooting, when you're pushed against a wall you don't have time to consider options, since you're done regardless you don't have anything to lose too.
Now imagine how more escalated it gets when Israel gets support for almost everyone, it thinks it is doing god's work, and views Arabs as less human.
 

I feel like that's the main point that most people turn a blind eye to. The whole Zionist project in land that had inhabitants from the start was a terrible idea. Israel exhaust its citizens and resources and commit war crime in a desperate way to survive in the region. I doubt this situation will ever be sustainable. If they managed to completely ethnic cleanse Palestinians and end the state solution, the entire Muslim and Arab population which is like 1.6 billion people will continue to hold grudge towards them for a very long time. No situation is ever permanent, if they managed to get away with it now because of USA/Europe support, who knows what the future would bring. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by lina

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

 

seems quite obvious that Israel has encouraged Hamas to create an anti-Palestinian climate and thus be able to push them with impunity in the eyes of its population and the world. They are not interested in a civilized Palestinian government because that would leave them in a very bad place.

By promoting Hamas they put themselves in a position to be the good guys in history. Their objective is to throw them out, and this massacre is perfect for their objective, that is why they have allowed it. Hamas is a puppet in the hands of the Israeli government. Once the heat and shock of the massacres have passed, things begin to look clear. Almost sure that the mosad knew that hamas was going to get in, and the army's incredible delay in helping the kibbutzs was almost certainly intentional. If so, the state of Israel is complicit in this, and the dogs of Hamas their puppets. 

The Israeli government takes advantage of the Palestinians' savagery and tendency to war to achieve its goals, which are obvious: the expansion of Israel. nothing new in human history, human groups in extermination, the same as always. It is sad to see that one of those groups is civilized but continues to behave the same under the civilized surface

Edited October 16, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[lina]

 spot on 100% 

[StarStruck]

Jews need to drop the myth they are the chosen people and give human rights to Palestinians, that is the root cause of all of this mayhem. Now Israel is just trimming the "leafs". On the long term this will only cause more horror in that region.

Edited October 16, 2023 by StarStruck

[Merkabah Star]

23 minutes ago, lina said:

 spot on 100% 

I wish we could all just hold our consciousness together to make it all stop. Instead we are forced to witness reality at its worst, in every way. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Merkabah Star

[lina]

 

@Merkabah Star  Yes. 

https://en.royanews.tv/news/45386/2023-10-16 

'Israeli authorities yet to allow aid entry into Gaza': Egypt

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-week-2-monday-intl-hnk/index.html

“At the moment there is neither a ceasefire nor humanitarian assistance in the Gaza Strip in return for the exit of foreigners,” the Prime Minister’s office told CNN.

The fact that there 10,000+ injured people in Gaza, and the world is watching Israel prevention of the entry of the aid until this day, just speaks volume about the complete failure of the international community to prevent such an atrocity in 2023. 

[thenondualtankie]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Jews need to drop the myth they are the chosen people and give human rights to Palestinians, that is the root cause of all of this mayhem. Now Israel is just trimming the "leafs". On the long term this will only cause more horror in that region.

That's not the root cause of the conflict.

The root cause is survival of national identity. Both the Jews and Palestinians view their own nation as supreme over the other.

The fact that the Jews view themselves as the "chosen people" is just how the above mechanism has expressed itself in Jews.

[PurpleTree]

Palestinians should just go and take a smaller country over, like the maldives or liechtenstein

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

I wish we could all just hold our consciousness together to make it all stop. Instead we are forced to witness reality at its worst, in every way. 

Hamas installed traps all over gaza to wait for israeli soldiers. without destroying buildings, hundreds of Israeli soldiers will die for nothing. Remind you that there are NO civilians in those buildings after IDF asked them to live.

Please take this perspective also into accout and don't be so biased.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Nivsch