New War In Israel / Gaza

[How to be wise]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I doubt you will find many who support Hamas, what they support is ending Israeli settlement expansion.

Or Israeli settlement at all. They want to return to 1948, where Palestine had everything. 

[LSD-Rumi]

Hammas killed civilians in a day, more than those killed in 20 years. It is really a massacre.

[Yimpa]

It’s like a forest fire spinning out of control. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Let us come to terms with this. Wars have happened throughout history. There will be winners and losers in war. This is the way the issue will resolve itself. Moral virtue signaling is useless in this scenario. Morality is the last thing they care about in this scenario. 

Moralistic judgements could and should be made in retrospect. In this complicated situation. Stick with the facts.

Except notice how both sides immediately turn to morality and try to plead morality and gain sympathy and support from the outside world after each action. So clearly it's a big factor.

If all you want is endless war then morality doesn't matter. But if you want a chance at a peace settlement then it does matter. How you treat your enemy matters in many nuanced and far-reaching ways.

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Leo Gura

   True. It's like this logical problem: In a room with 10 murderers, you come in a kill one. How many murderous remain?

   Most people can't answer that right, but Chat GPT 4 answer "10, because by murdering you become a murderer yourself." to paraphrase it's logic.

I like that! Very clever. Thanks for sharing.

2 hours ago, Something Funny said:

A random question but do you think it's realistic for a normal person, without money / connections / crazy charisma to aspire to become a president. Or is it a waste of time?

Charisma is pretty important. It takes a special person to be President in a generational sort of way, not just as another cog in the wheel.

1 hour ago, Raze said:

This wouldn’t work 

1. you’d be admitting you were at fault and failed to protect the USA, instantly the anger directed at Al Queda would be redirected at you. Prior to 9/11 George Bush reduced counter terrorism funding, hadn’t met with his head of counter terrorism, and ignored a warning that Al Queda planned to attack the US using planes. If that started being spread in the media directly after the attacks your administration would be done for.

2. At the time Osama Bin Laden was barricaded inside Afghanistan. If you weren’t going to war you’d have to negotiate with them. This would inspire anger about you even talking to them at all, and it’s very possible negotiations would fall through, at the time the taliban said they’d only hand over Osama Bin Laden for trial with a third party. The public would also feel continuing to let the taliban stay in power would be allowing future attacks.
 

3. Bringing up Muslims as a group right away would make people angry you’re asking for sympathy for a group they feel wasn’t primarily harmed. Your opponents would paint you as being more worried about racism than the victims of 9/11. George Bush only met with Muslim leaders and disavowed anti Muslim sentiment a year after when bigotryn and criticism  towards them was ramping up.

4. not going into Iraq would probably be the main improvement, however the Bush admin already wanted to invade them and this gave a great excuse. But that’s not a stage yellow thing, even stage blue or orange leaders wouldn’t do that based on ideology, it was a power play and long term goal for other reasons.

I was asked for a stage Yellow approach. That's what I gave. I never said America would be mature enough to go along with it. That's up for debate. But I think a powerful, charismatic leader could have made it work. A JFK type.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

True. It's like this logical problem: In a room with 10 murderers, you come in a kill one. How many murderous remain?

   Most people can't answer that right, but Chat GPT 4 answer "10, because by murdering you become a murderer yourself." to paraphrase it's logic.

Let’s see what Google Bard thinks, hmmm…

Bard coming in… with both a smart and dumb response in one!

What I found smart about Bard’s response is it first asks itself, “What is a murderer?”. 

But then Bard butchers the rest of the response 

Quote

If you kill one murderer in a room with 10 murderers, there will be 9 murderers remaining.

This is a logic puzzle that is often used to test people's critical thinking skills. The key to solving this puzzle is to remember that the definition of a murderer is someone who has killed another person. If you kill one murderer, you are not killing all of the murderers in the room. You are simply killing one of them.

Another way to think about this puzzle is to use math. If there are 10 murderers in a room and you kill one of them, then there are 9 murderers remaining. This is because 10 - 1 = 9.

I hope this helps!

 

[Scholar]

Quote

 

the last 3 days have changed forever the way israel is going to handle any upcoming situation regarding security, and for one main reason:

in the past few decades- especially the last 15 years, israel has been playing what i would call an "impossible dance", we have gotten to the point where our technology and intel has gotten so good compared to our enemies that we have decided that entire conflicts and wars that seem inevitable can be "pushed away", not without directly confronting them but rather by "dancing around them" using our most advanced technology systems.

instead of invading gaza a long time ago for shooting thousands of rockets at civilians, we have built a super advanced missile defense system that intercepts rocket midair, essentially making the idea of rockets being fired at you tolerable. without this system there would not be hamas in gaza today, since an invasion would take place a long time ago.

border security issues? just strap thousands of cameras all over the gaza strip and the west bank, use cyber forces to hack and listen to everything the enemy says so you can attack before any plan can even begin to manifest.

every now and then things escalate and on average about 5-15 people will die from rocket explosions/ a series of terror attacks, when this happen everyone will be furious and israel will just bomb several important hamas strategic points and declare "the enemy is the weakest is has ever been".

this MO of "impossible dance" was overall supported by isralies because at the end of the day, a full war would mean a lot of dead israeli soldiers, and a ton of palestinian civilian deaths (way more than what we had so far, which would mean much less support from the UN and US, and a giant humanitarian catastrophe) - the idea of war just sounded too devastating.

3 days ago, the "dance" failed completely , god knows how its even possible - but we have gotten such a big hit, that the idea of dancing around issues like gaza or hezbolla just with protective techonoly is no longer considered tolerable, by not only the right and center wing but also the left. the idea of completely invading hamas and perhaps even kicking out every gazan citizen to another arab nation would be a far right talking point only a week ago- now it seems like many support it. and its not only because everyone is traumatized , its because everyone understand that the "dance" failed, we will not be confident in our way of avoiding our problems by sufficient technology for years if not decades now.

the message the israeli gov and military is trying to convey in the news now , while a bit oversimplified is "israel has gone crazy, if you mess with us you are in trouble, the dance is over". an entire security policy shift in a matter of a single day. will it stick for months and years? we will see, in my opinion it will unless we can make people trust the protective technology and intel again, which will take a long time.

 

 

[LSD-Rumi]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Charisma is pretty important. It takes a special person to be President in a generational sort of way, not just as another cog in the wheel.

Biden has virtually no charisma considering his old age, but he managed some how to win. Maybe there was no better democratic candidate.

Edited October 10, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

It's a loose/loose situation for Israel the way I see it. They'll either go harder on the Palestinian genocide and destroy their own reputation plus the reputation of the Jewish people (Which Israel is at fault, they've been portraying themselves as being equal to Judaism in an attempt to paint anti-Zionist critics as anti-Semitists), or they'll back off and finally set Palestine free, which would create a power vacuum in Palestine allowing other middle-eastern actors to supply Palestine with a stronger infrastructure and military, which could lead to a war to Israel down the line. If this were to happen, Israel might have to deal with actual military grade vehicles and weapons instead of makeshift rockets and fighters who fly in on literal fucking paragliders. 

Yes, Israel feared this precise moment for a long time. Instead of confronting the issue (which as you point out is realistically leading to more death and war) they basically pushed it under the rug. See the comment I quoted above from an Israeli.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Biden has virtually no charisma considering his old age, but he managed some how to win. Maybe there was no better democratic candidate.

But he had a lifetime career in politics with massive name recognition and political connections. I was asked a different question. He also got quite lucky that he was up against a depraved narccisitic lunatic in the middle of a pandemic.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But he had a lifetime career in politics with massive name recognition and political connections. I was asked a different question. 

2 hours ago, Something Funny said:

A random question but do you think it's realistic for a normal person, without money / connections / crazy charisma to aspire to become a president. Or is it a waste of time?

Aha! This makes sense now. I was about to correct your logic, Leo. However, in basing my original argument, I was focused only on seeing the question as being about someone who has no money or connections or crazy charisma. In this limited sense, my argument would have been valid. Then I re-read the question more holistically and critically and realized I missed an important detail: a normal person.

Wow! I could not have taught this style of critical thinking in academia or by watching mainstream news passively and myopically. In those bubbles, everyone inside the bubble acts very biased; zooming in on a limited aspect that they favor (as I originally was about to before I caught myself).

We’re conveniently blocking out important context and details when we hyper-fixate in this manner, which then informs our positions, projections, and a host of other problems. 

This kind of distorted mentality isn’t just applicable with world news; it also has affects other areas of our life as well, such as intimate relationships!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Yimpa
I added the word “no”. Crazy how one word changes the entire context

[Schizophonia]

28 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Yes, Israel feared this precise moment for a long time. Instead of confronting the issue (which as you point out is realistically leading to more death and war) they basically pushed it under the rug. See the comment I quoted above from an Israeli.

Not at all, Likud is very happy that the low qi of Hamas legitimizes their Talmudic project.
Currently the French media are already preparing the destruction of a left-wing party (which I don't even like) because they were content to call for peace instead of licking Israel's ass.
I'll cut myself off if it's different in other Western countries.

[Vrubel]

The back-and-forth bombings with Lebanon are getting more intense. Now it's not much but everything indicates Israel will lash out at them too and even Syria. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Vrubel

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I think we’ll probably all have to have intercourse and many mixed offspring’s to achieve stability and world peace-ish

For example when i had sex with this muslim woman. It made me respect her heritage and culture more. But i’m not yet saved from my bigotry. I need moar

[Vrubel]

They just found 40 dead babies some beheaded...

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Nabd said:

Can you imagine proselytizing a religion where god was crucified and humiliated on a planet where strength and war gods are worshipped? Imagine a Viking living in Norway 900AD reaction when a monk is proselytizing this god while you worship Odin lol.

Yes, it's incredible that the Romans adopted the Christianity. 

 

2 hours ago, Nabd said:

Please note that everything we know about Mohammad comes from secondary sources. This means we don't really know if Mohammad did these kind of things or if he actually existed for that matter because there are not enough sources from that period

Well, I think it is indifferent whether he existed or not, the same as Christ. What is important is the archetype that a civilization adopts. Odin, Zeus, Buddha, Christ, or Muhammad, portray the projection of a civilization, the path they follow. The paths lead to a destination. The path of Christ leads towards the green stage, that of Buddha further, that of Muhammad... to what we are seeing. then a civilization should consider whether its path should be corrected. It has been done in the past, the French, the American,  the Russian revolutions were brave movements of change. very necessary, or we would continue holding the penis of a nobleman so that he pees, or being slaves of the heir of the land. We will see if in the east there is a spirit of freedom, or as it seems, of slaves

[StarStruck]

It is interesting how Jews got persecuted and always lived in terror in their host countries, they leave their host countries only to recreate the situation in their home country called Israel. This exact same thing happens with people who lived in a dysfunctional household, leave that household only to recreate it later. The only way to solve this conflict if these people do collective therapy which neither of these people are ready for. Jewish need to drop their trauma otherwise the will inflict it outwards. The Jews want to be seen as internal victims who are got enough being victims and play their own hero in the narrative of their collective myth of being the chosen people. Chosen people just means collective unconscious garbage that is being passed down from one generation to another generation. And the tragicomic part is that the Jews are becoming the monster they suffered from so long. This is the sad part of things if you don't do inner work. You become the monster you hate: Jews becoming the concentration camp guards..

Edited October 10, 2023 by StarStruck

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

14 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

They just found 40 dead babies some beheaded...

   By HAMAs or Israeli soldiers? Link?

[StarStruck]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Vrubel

   By HAMAs or Israeli soldiers? Link?

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

5 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

It is interesting how Jews got persecuted and always lived in terror in their host countries, they leave their host countries only to recreate the situation in their home country called Israel. This exact same thing happens with people who lived in a dysfunctional household, leave that household only to recreate it later. The only way to solve this conflict if these people do collective therapy which neither of these people are ready for. Jewish need to drop their trauma otherwise the will inflict it outwards. The Jews want to be seen as internal victims who are got enough being victims and play their own hero in the narrative of their collective myth of being the chosen people. Chosen people just means collective unconscious garbage that is being passed down from one generation to another generation. And the tragicomic part is that the Jews are becoming the monster they suffered from so long. This is the sad part of things if you don't do inner work. You become the monster you hate: Jews becoming the concentration camp guards..

   Exactly, all based on developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development, cognitive and m0ral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, Architypes, and shadow work, other lines of development in society and life domains, ideological beliefs indoctrinated by culture, family upbringing, mainstream/alternative media, news outlets, social media, tv channels, radios, news papers, peers and teachers in education system, and many more information gathering points that influences one's self biases and preferences and internalities that are feedback looped by externalities. Also based on history, and geographical limitations, as well as biosphere/hydrosphere and atmosphere differences and limitations.

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

1 minute ago, StarStruck said:

   ????