New War In Israel / Gaza

[Majed]

@Leo Gura the islamic world seems so self biased. in their minds to live in peace they need to eradicate israel, america, all of europe and the west, all buddhist and hindu cultures... there's not an inch of relativism going on. pure devilry. 

 

instead of people doing epistemology and spiritual work, understanding relativity, how culturally influenced one is... they just go to war.

[Nivsch]

@Nabd This is more complex than that.

The left-center opposition wants to negotiate and strenghten the moderate side within the palestinians but Netanyahu wants hamas to stay strong becasue it serves him. Very frustrating.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

1 minute ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura the islamic world seems so self biased. in their minds to live in peace they need to eradicate israel, america, all of europe and the west, all buddhist and hindu cultures... there's not an inch of relativism going on. pure devilry. 

 

instead of people doing epistemology and spiritual work, understanding relativity, how culturally influenced one is... they just go to war.

For 20% of them (and hamas between them) this is really true.

[PurpleTree]

20 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura the islamic world seems so self biased. in their minds to live in peace they need to eradicate israel, america, all of europe and the west, all buddhist and hindu cultures... there's not an inch of relativism going on. pure devilry. 

 

instead of people doing epistemology and spiritual work, understanding relativity, how culturally influenced one is... they just go to war.

Well then they will turn on each other, sunni vs shia etc

[PurpleTree]

Why is „drama“ so captivating?

i haven’t really watched news in months and months but now since this thread I’ve watched quite a few reports 

[BlueOak]

11 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Why is „drama“ so captivating?

i haven’t really watched news in months and months but now since this thread I’ve watched quite a few reports 

Do you look at the bright light close to you, or the dim one in the distance?  Too philosophical?

Do you watch the entertaining story with all the players, all their different perspectives in unexpect twists? Or do you watch the man in his shop quietly serving the local community? Which one has more to see? More to understand?

The level of theater and fantasy in movies/books/stories/song has reduced greatly because of a hyperfocus on realism. So that need for theater, fantasy, and imagination is now sort out elsewhere, like politics or the news. Go watch a popular 50's or 60's movie (popular at the time) and you'll see what I mean.

Edited October 8, 2023 by BlueOak

[RoerAmit]

Ok guys. Let me give you some solid evidence.

Im 23 years old. Live in Kibbutz Shoval, 35 minutes drive from Gaza Strip, I serve in Gaza areas in the army and I just had the call of duty which I am proudly gonna serve.

I am sitting here very close to the war zone. My brother in law is there. ALL OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE THERE AND MORE.

I consider my self leftist and Yellow stage thinker.

Consider that is you’ve never been in a war or actually threatened you will never understand what it’s like. It’s the worst nightmare come true.

We fucking hate these terrible terrorists. There is no place for compassion when your life is threatened.

They were very lucky, because of a big army mistake on Gaza border, they were able to get into bases and small settlements. And believe it or not, but there was a huge psychedelic trance party in kibbutz beeri territory, which is 1.5 miles away from Gaza border, they breached the fence and actually went straight to the party and murdered at least 500-800 hundred young people in the party!!!!!!!!! and just in the party!!! Then around 500 hundred terrorists entered and went straight to the settlement, into homes and murdered kids, women, old people. And kidnapped children and women and soldiers into Gaza, this is a tactical negotiation card the achieved.
Right now 600 murdered confirmed - I believe at least 1000 people are actually dead, and more then 3000 injured.

To compare to 9/11 - it’s like 42,000 people will die in 9/11 !!!!!!

Look, please don’t compare Israelis to Terrorist. We have dreams, I am a jazz musician and will go to study in Berkeley college of music in the next years, we care about building some beautiful and useful to society and human life, we are the biggest startup nation compared to number of startups per person.

We actually have stuff to lose. We want peace, we want good. And they don’t. They have nothing but hate and terror. They just want to kill murder and destroy us and “free Israel land” from our lives here. We are too strong and powerful to let it happen. They need to understand there is no other solution than accepting this truth and give up their wounds. We will never attack civilians, never attack people, just those who try to harm us.

I am sorry if I broke this forums roles, I just wanted to share some more factual information.

if you don’t believe me it’s very easy- just go to Hamas Telegram channel, translate it to Arabic and they are gladly sharing their success of murdering and kidnapping women children and of course soldiers.

I wish we will know peace.

 

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, RoerAmit said:

Ok guys. Let me give you some solid evidence.

Im 23 years old. Live in Kibbutz Shoval, 35 minutes drive from Gaza Strip, I serve in Gaza areas in the army and I just had the call of duty which I am proudly gonna serve.

I am sitting here very close to the war zone. My brother in law is there. ALL OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE THERE AND MORE.

I consider my self leftist and Yellow stage thinker.

Consider that is you’ve never been in a war or actually threatened you will never understand what it’s like. It’s the worst nightmare come true.

We fucking hate these terrible terrorists. There is no place for compassion when your life is threatened.

They were very lucky, because of a big army mistake on Gaza border, they were able to get into bases and small settlements. And believe it or not, but there was a huge psychedelic trance party in kibbutz beeri territory, which is 1.5 miles away from Gaza border, they breached the fence and actually went straight to the party and murdered at least 500-800 hundred young people in the party!!!!!!!!! and just in the party!!! Then around 500 hundred terrorists entered and went straight to the settlement, into homes and murdered kids, women, old people. And kidnapped children and women and soldiers into Gaza, this is a tactical negotiation card the achieved.
Right now 600 murdered confirmed - I believe at least 1000 people are actually dead, and more then 3000 injured.

To compare to 9/11 - it’s like 42,000 people will die in 9/11 !!!!!!

Look, please don’t compare Israelis to Terrorist. We have dreams, I am a jazz musician and will go to study in Berkeley college of music in the next years, we care about building some beautiful and useful to society and human life, we are the biggest startup nation compared to number of startups per person.

We actually have stuff to lose. We want peace, we want good. And they don’t. They have nothing but hate and terror. They just want to kill murder and destroy us and “free Israel land” from our lives here. We are too strong and powerful to let it happen. They need to understand there is no other solution than accepting this truth and give up their wounds. We will never attack civilians, never attack people, just those who try to harm us.

I am sorry if I broke this forums roles, I just wanted to share some more factual information.

if you don’t believe me it’s very easy- just go to Hamas Telegram channel, translate it to Arabic and they are gladly sharing their success of murdering and kidnapping women children and of course soldiers.

I wish we will know peace.

 

My sympathies to you. You have been dealt with a difficult calling and responsibility that, I think you are right, most of us here do not really understand. I hope you will be able to maintain your own humanity while you aid the defense of your people.

[PurpleTree]

15 minutes ago, RoerAmit said:

Ok guys. Let me give you some solid evidence.

Im 23 years old. Live in Kibbutz Shoval, 35 minutes drive from Gaza Strip, I serve in Gaza areas in the army and I just had the call of duty which I am proudly gonna serve.

I am sitting here very close to the war zone. My brother in law is there. ALL OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE THERE AND MORE.

I consider my self leftist and Yellow stage thinker.

Consider that is you’ve never been in a war or actually threatened you will never understand what it’s like. It’s the worst nightmare come true.

We fucking hate these terrible terrorists. There is no place for compassion when your life is threatened.

They were very lucky, because of a big army mistake on Gaza border, they were able to get into bases and small settlements. And believe it or not, but there was a huge psychedelic trance party in kibbutz beeri territory, which is 1.5 miles away from Gaza border, they breached the fence and actually went straight to the party and murdered at least 500-800 hundred young people in the party!!!!!!!!! and just in the party!!! Then around 500 hundred terrorists entered and went straight to the settlement, into homes and murdered kids, women, old people. And kidnapped children and women and soldiers into Gaza, this is a tactical negotiation card the achieved.
Right now 600 murdered confirmed - I believe at least 1000 people are actually dead, and more then 3000 injured.

To compare to 9/11 - it’s like 42,000 people will die in 9/11 !!!!!!

Look, please don’t compare Israelis to Terrorist. We have dreams, I am a jazz musician and will go to study in Berkeley college of music in the next years, we care about building some beautiful and useful to society and human life, we are the biggest startup nation compared to number of startups per person.

We actually have stuff to lose. We want peace, we want good. And they don’t. They have nothing but hate and terror. They just want to kill murder and destroy us and “free Israel land” from our lives here. We are too strong and powerful to let it happen. They need to understand there is no other solution than accepting this truth and give up their wounds. We will never attack civilians, never attack people, just those who try to harm us.

I am sorry if I broke this forums roles, I just wanted to share some more factual information.

if you don’t believe me it’s very easy- just go to Hamas Telegram channel, translate it to Arabic and they are gladly sharing their success of murdering and kidnapping women children and of course soldiers.

I wish we will know peace.

 

That‘s fair-ish

i heard about the rave being targeted by terrorists, horrible stuff

what are your views on the settlements and settlers expanding etc?

take care

[BlueOak]

I don't know how long you've been alive @Nabd but this sort of violence while I was growing up was common, and it continued for a long period. I think Iran just want to return to that tit-for-tat exchanges of decades gone by. To increase the pressure on who they perceive to be their enemies, using a proxy state, a convenient distraction for others also. Strategically, they want any way possible to isolate Saudi Arabia from the US more, which is certainly possible depending on how far Israel goes in response. The US and Saudi relations were splitting quite far during the Russian-Ukraine war, oil prices, and over Yemen. Then they patched them up, but they are shakey enough that this could split them again.

The Syrian point was interesting, thanks for the map and detail. One result of the Russian/Iran actions in Ukraine, or Russia's actions in Africa against French interests, is there is so much political capital to act against these countries that what you are describing is just the tip of the iceberg. The general population in the US is just going to say so what, to anything the US or the EU do against Russia or especially Iran for the next decade or more. I would definitely expect some very quiet French reprisals that we won't even hear about, I was trying to tell people to stop call France weak, but nobody listens.

[Bobby_2021]

There is no easy answer, certainly not a moralistic one.

If Israel being the more developed side agrees on a treaty, there is absolutely zero chance that these islamic militants would agree to it.

Infact they were the ones who started the war after the treaty and or course Israel won the war and got even more land, had the palatines never attacked them in the first place. They have an even more aggressive land grabbing terrorist policy and they are pretty explicit about it. You can put them in them in any developed country that accepts them and they would want to live and rule according to sharia law.

The answer to where would the palatine people go is easy.

They don't have to go anywhere. They have to give up power and let Israel take over governance. They can live in peace in their own land and some jews would inhabit along with you. 

[RoerAmit]

16 minutes ago, Nabd said:

I don't know what to say.

Question: How come the IDF didn't notice the fucking parachute guys? Something is is weird here.

I hold the view that this is not just Hamas/Iran, there has to be willingness from Israel for Hamas to be able to pull such a thing, there is no way some part of the Israeli inner circle didn't know about this.

They didn’t know. They actually surprised us. Most of the troops went to the West Bank area because of many terror attacks indications that might happen. So many troops moved from Gaza to West Bank.

+
Hamas got new tech that helped them to breach the fence and neutralize and first defense line.

This is biggest scandal that happened since Yom Kipper 1973 War

[Raze]

2 hours ago, RoerAmit said:

We actually have stuff to lose. We want peace, we want good.

I am sorry this is happening and I truly hope you and your friends and family stay safe.

But this is the inevitable outcome of what happens when you have nothing to lose. You cannot occupy, torture, and kill a population and expect them to not lash out. 

[Yimpa]

29 minutes ago, Raze said:

But this is the inevitable outcome of what happens when you have nothing to lose. You cannot occupy, torture, and kill a population and expect them to not lash out. 

Elaborate on this, I don’t understand what you’re getting at.

[max duewel]

@RoerAmit keep us updated please

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, RoerAmit said:

Look, please don’t compare Israelis to Terrorist. We have dreams, I am a jazz musician and will go to study in Berkeley college of music in the next years, we care about building some beautiful and useful to society and human life, we are the biggest startup nation compared to number of startups per person.

We actually have stuff to lose. We want peace, we want good. And they don’t. They have nothing but hate and terror. They just want to kill murder and destroy us and “free Israel land” from our lives here. We are too strong and powerful to let it happen. They need to understand there is no other solution than accepting this truth and give up their wounds. We will never attack civilians, never attack people, just those who try to harm us.

I am sorry if I broke this forums roles, I just wanted to share some more factual information.

if you don’t believe me it’s very easy- just go to Hamas Telegram channel, translate it to Arabic and they are gladly sharing their success of murdering and kidnapping women children and of course soldiers.

I wish we will know peace.

Exactly. They are tribalistic in their mentality and in the unhealthy version of it.

We are organized society and totally different.

[Lila9]

There are approximately 50 Muslim-majority countries in the world.

There is only one Jewish-majority country in the world.

Why are Hamas and Palestinians so obsessed with this small piece of land? Probably for religious reasons, there are sacred places to Islam in Israel, like the Al Aqsa Mosque.

I think this situation between Israel and Palestine is complex and messed up, with both sides sharing responsibility. However, I do believe that Israel has more historical legitimacy for this land than the Palestinians. No one can negate this legitimacy.

Historically, Jews have faced persecution. Muslims, on the other hand, have a different approach, they may be intolerant of those who disagree with their religion. Islam has a history of conflicts and wars, with Muhammad himself believing in fighting against those who threatened Islam, even to the death.

Gaza is influenced by individuals with extreme Islamic ideologies since birth, harboring intense hatred for Jewish people. They believe that all Jews should be killed, akin to Nazi ideology but with less power. If they had more power, they might perpetrate a more terrible Holocaust against Jewish people than the actual Nazis did. With such enemies, I don't envy the Jewish people at all.

Israel is dealing with a dangerous and underdeveloped population, still carrying the collective trauma of the Holocaust and the wounds of anti-Semitism. This is why I don't expect Israel to act nobly towards Palestine if its survival is at stake. Yet, Israel do it's best to be noble as much as it can, given the circumstances. If it were the US, France, Britain, or any other country, chances are they would have much less tolerance towards Gaza and Palestine in general.

Israel is not perfect, and there are underdeveloped radical right-wing individuals too. However, I can relate more to their point of view than to the radical Islam that fuels terrorists in Gaza.

Israel also exhibits more tolerance toward Arabs and Muslims than Muslims and Arabs have shown for Jewish people. Most people in Israel are willing to live with Arabs and Muslims in the same country as long as they are not a threat. However, I doubt that Muslims and Arabs have the same level of tolerance towards Jewish people.

I think that it's naive to negotiate peace with people who wants to remove you of the planet. Maybe in 100 years this would be possible, maybe then, when Gaza/Palestine would be controlled by more development and civilized leadership.

This is why I find Western thinking and and Westerns who support Palestine and demonize Israel, so odd. This is where the stage green thinking is more harmful and misleading than effective or practical. Because it can be too simplistic, black and white and lack in nuance.

Like with Sweden and their immigrants from Muslim countries. You can't be too nice with someone in too low developmental stage. With such people, you have to keep some bounderies and work hard for your right to exist.

 

[StarStruck]

[Scholar]

Apparently, HAMAS has released footage of the beheading of Israeli children. I refuse to watch this type of stuff, however I do wonder how long the left will keep supporting what is happening once they get confronted with footage like this.

We also have women being enslaved and literally called, and treated, as sex slaves. And you have to understand that these people proudly broadcast this type of stuff to the world.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Scholar

[gambler]

22 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Why can’t we all get along?

Because no one wants to start with the very basics. Like giving Palestinians indigenous rights and the right to return just like Jews, equalizing them in the eyes of a potential one-state solution.