New War In Israel / Gaza

[Danioover9000]

@Fluran

7 minutes ago, Fluran said:

all these sides, either tibet, israel, palestine, , as well Germany in world war 2, they are all in fear of being devoured and annihilated. even china themselves, are fear of being disintegrated

   Are you basing this view, or argument, from Daniel Schmachtenberger's Meta Crisis?

 

[Danioover9000]

@Fluran

11 minutes ago, Fluran said:

all these sides, either tibet, israel, palestine, , as well Germany in world war 2, they are all in fear of being devoured and annihilated. even china themselves, are fear of being disintegrated

   Also, not to attack you, but this line of thinking is similar to those who say 'all lives matter', in response to 'black lives matter' to downplay the severities of the systemic issues that made BLM in the first place. So comparing Tibet/WW2/ contexts to downplay the current crisis of Hamas attacking from Gaza to Israel is what it seems to me, is this true?

Edited October 7, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Fluran]

17 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Fluran

   Are you basing this view, or argument, from Daniel Schmachtenberger's Meta Crisis?

 

it's my daily doomsday attitude, beyond the ocean and desert we are all same, while it acknowledges that we are all human being, it is not the quote of peace, it is endless existential struggle and fight with the life, knowing that we are all same regardless which side we are, still that does not give you peace, the world pushes us into conflict that we must face. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Fluran

[Fluran]

13 minutes ago, Nabd said:

You can't compare Palestine with Germany because there is no single Palestinian party or coalition, if you ask Palestinians living in Israel about their political opinion you would be shocked to see most of them are in favor of Israel.

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Fluran

   Also, not to attack you, but this line of thinking is similar to those who say 'all lives matter', in response to 'black lives matter' to downplay the severities of the systemic issues that made BLM in the first place. So comparing Tibet/WW2/ contexts to downplay the current crisis of Hamas attacking from Gaza to Israel is what it seems to me, is this true?

war like most conflicts after 2000s is not about Palestinians.

I mean everyone kinda feels that they are victim and they are justified to do such cruel things, that's it, everyone feels subjectively that they are under existential threat.

 

 

++Russia and putin too

Edited October 7, 2023 by Fluran

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is def not a false flag.

Don't start with that.

Interestingly, some say the coordination required for this attack could have not been performed by HAMAS alone, and that this could indicate involvement from Iran, who are not happy about recent Arab–Israeli normalization deals.

The aim would be to basically provoke and force a response from Israel that will set the progress back and leave Israel more vulnerable in the long term.

 

[DieFree]

I personally felt really good at seeing Israel finally get a taste of its own medicine. 

[Scholar]

Just now, DieFree said:

I personally felt really good at seeing Israel finally get a taste of its own medicine. 

There is reportedly footage of dead naked female soldiers being paraded around by HAMAS and palestinian civilians.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Interestingly, some say the coordination required for this attack could have not been performed by HAMAS alone, and that this could indicate involvement from Iran, who are not happy about recent Arab–Israeli normalization deals.

Of course Iran is probably involved in funding Hamas and supplying rockets/weapons.

Where do you think they get 2000 rockets from?

Iran funds the Palestinians like the US funds Ukraine.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[DieFree]

Just now, Scholar said:

There is reportedly footage of dead naked female soldiers being paraded around by HAMAS and palestinian civilians.

Killing or harming prisoners is always wrong.

Striking back at occupiers who have held you under a brutal 15-year blockage where even vital medicines were banned is righteous. 

[StarStruck]

Israeli intel is one of the best in the world. No way those amateur terrorists surprise attacked without notice. Probably the far right gov allowed this to justify upcoming crackdown. This is Israel’s 911. 

[Leo Gura]

Unfortunately this attack will make the right-wing in Israel even stronger, making a peace agreement even less likely.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Yimpa

38 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

White House Statement from President Joe Biden :

This morning, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel.  The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel. Terrorism is never justified. Israel has a right to defend itself and its people. The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation.  My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.
 
Jill and I are keeping in our prayers all of the families who have been hurt by this violence. We are heartbroken by the lives that have been tragically cut short and hope for a swift recovery for all those who have been wounded.
 
My team and I are tracking this situation closely, and I will remain in close touch with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

   This the ideal speech from Joe Biden:

This morning, I spoke with 'Prime Minister' DICTATOR Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel.  The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel, PROVIDED HE STOPS THE TWO STATE PARTY AND CLEAN UP HIS ETHNOCENTRIC FANTASY. Terrorism is never justified. Israel has a right to defend itself and its people, BUT SO DOES PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS WHO ARE DEPORTED FROM THIER HOMES IN ISRAEL AND WEST BANK TO CONCENTRATION CAMP GAZA, KINDA LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN WW2 HHHMMMM... The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation UNLESS THEY PAY HIGH TARRIFS TO MY NEOLIBERAL AMERICAN EMPIRE, BUT DO PROTEST PEACEFULLY OR IMMA BE BOMBASTIC WITH MY ICONIC RAPPING!  My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering, BUT MY INTEGRITY AND HONOR TO PROTECT THE DOWNTRODDEN IS LIKE A FOX: CUNNING YET SENILE, LIKE PAELSTINE, IS LIKE FLOWING MAGMA MEETS THE FLOOR. NETANYAHOU, GET YOUR ACT TOFETHER MAN! LEX FRIDMAN, TEACH HIM LOVE MAN!
 
Jill and I are keeping in our prayers all of the families who have been hurt by this violence. We are heartbroken by the lives that have been tragically cut short and hope for a swift recovery for all those who have been wounded. HOWEVER, WE ALSO PRAY HARDER THAT DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSION BY ZIONISTS, ETHNOCENTRISM AND NATIONALISM, WHICH ISRAEL CLEARLY HAS LEARNT THE WRONG LESSONS FROM HISTORY, HOPEFULLY STOPS OR WE'LL IMPOSE OUR AMERICAN DEMOCRACY HARDER ONTO ISRAEL.I DO LIKE ISRAEL, BUT PEACE TO PALESTINE!
 
My team and I are tracking this situation closely, and I will remain in close touch with Prime Minister Netanyahu. AND LEX FRIDMAN, WHO SURELY WILL COVER THIS INEQUALITY UNBIASEDLY.

OI, IS THIS RECORDED? DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN LIKE NIGEN MAN, PLZ DON'T BAN OR WARN I'M JOKING!.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, DieFree said:

Killing or harming prisoners is always wrong.

Striking back at occupiers who have held you under a brutal 15-year blockage where even vital medicines were banned is righteous. 

This is backwards thinking. None of this will help anyone, especially not palestinians. HAMAS didn't do this to help palestine-israeli relationships, they did this because they are ideologically motivated to eradicate all jewish people from israel and probably being used as pawns by larger actors like Iran.

 

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Unfortunately this attack will make the right-wing in Israel even stronger, making a peace agreement even less likely.

There are actors who are unlikely to allow actual peace to happen. There is a reason HAMAS is being funded by foreign nations. Realistically, these types of prospects are pipe dreams.

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This is backwards thinking. None of this will help anyone, especially not palestinians. HAMAS didn't do this to help palestine-israeli relationships, they did this because they are ideologically motivated to eradicate all jewish people from israel and probably being used as pawns by larger actors like Iran.

 

There are actors who are unlikely to allow actual peace to happen. There is a reason HAMAS is being funded by foreign nations. Realistically, these types of prospects are pipe dreams.

   What do you mean backwards thinking? Don't they have the moral high ground given how Israel has been steadily taking land from Palestine, and deporting them to Gaza? Isn't this another consequence of a 2 party state because of ethnocentric and nationalistic Zionist reasons?

   Just consider what is happening akin to how European settlers and colonialism towards indigenous native tribes like the apache and comanche, just take and squeeze them out of their natural territory into smaller and smaller lands, meanwhile being covert racists right?

[Vrubel]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Unfortunately this attack will make the right-wing in Israel even stronger, making a peace agreement even less likely.

After this war, Netanyahu will definitely be held responsible for such a blunder and is going to face unprecedented pressured to resign. But Ironicly Israel is more integrating into the region by letting stage blue win out over orange and green. Blue people are religious and have a lot of kids so naturally in a democracy they will end up dominating. Also, I would add to the Palestine-Tibet comparison. It plays a huge role in this conflict that Palestinians are mostly stage red. Even the Israeli Arabs who have more comfortable lives constantly murder and blood-feud amongst themselves. 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Vrubel

[Scholar]

17 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Scholar

   What do you mean backwards thinking? Don't they have the moral high ground given how Israel has been steadily taking land from Palestine, and deporting them to Gaza? Isn't this another consequence of a 2 party state because of ethnocentric and nationalistic Zionist reasons?

   Just consider what is happening akin to how European settlers and colonialism towards indigenous native tribes like the apache and comanche, just take and squeeze them out of their natural territory into smaller and smaller lands, meanwhile being covert racists right?

It's backwards thinking because it is way too moralistic. What HAMAS did will not help palestinians at all, it will just lead to more death and misery.

 You can argue that what Israel does and did in the past was unjustified, but that doesn't justify blind terrorism. From the perspective of Israel none of this is as simple as it seems. 80 years ago a holocaust was committed, which of course motivated them to seek their own national identity, and of course they were willing to forgoe moral idealism to achieve that goal. They are still existentially threatened by nation-state actors around them, and so naturally will seek to secure more power within their own region.

If the european settlers were being hunted by the europeans, and found a foothold in the america's, where everyone around them wants to murder them, I would have much more sympathy for the americans if they decided to occupy a strip of the US the way the israeli's do.

Stop thinking about this in terms of morality, and look at it from the perspective of self-preservation. You have it easy because you don't have to make such choices.

If you are going to talk about moral ideals the way you do, you could justify occupying the whole of arabia because of their systematic rape and murder of women. This is a game that has no end. In fact, by your logic, any vegan is justified to go on a killing spree to kill meat eaters, or go and kill slaughterhouse workers. Because, if you believe you are morally superior to the israeli's as a non-vegan, you are kidding yourself. It's completely self-serving. In fact, even if you are vegan, your consumption of luxury goods requires the deprivation of land, the murder of individuals, and all to serve a completely trivial function, your own satisfaction, that you could gain by other means.

 

I can understand the palestinians, I can even understand HAMAS, even if they are utterly delusional and far less developed than even the Israeli right wing is. What I am disappointed in however, is that people in here have such a flat, black and white view of this.

The world is not as simple as you would like it to be.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

After this war, Netanyahu will definitely be held responsible for such a blunder and is going to face unprecedented pressured to resign.

I don't think so.

Netayahu has always been strong on defense. So it makes no sense to blame him for this. In fact, it bolsters his position because he's always warned the Palestinians just want to destroy Israel. This attack plays right into Netanyahu's agenda. I predict Israeli support for Netanyahu will increase. Similar to Bush after 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

A surprise attack from your enemy is not really a blunder. Your enemies can be skillful and clever. The reason hawks are hawks is because they realize that real threats lurk around ever corner.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

@Leo Gura I trust your analysis. I just found out yesterday that you loved playing chess growing up 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

I trust your analysis.

Don't trust my analysis, do your own analysis.

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't think so.

Netayahu has always been strong on defense. So it makes no sense to blame him for this. In fact, it bolsters his position because he's always warned the Palestinians just want to destroy Israel. This attack plays right into Netanyahu's agenda. I predict Israeli support for Netanyahu will increase. Similar to Bush after 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

An surprise attack from your enemy is not really a hawk's blunder. Your enemies can be skillful and clever.

From what I have picked up, Natanyahu was criticizes for a lack of response and a kind of degradation of the IDF? From what I understand this might have been one of the reasons for this strike, the perceived weakening of the IDF.