Do enlightened people believe in supernatural deities?

[woohoo123]

I am wondering why we don’t see more enlightened people as part of mainstream religions?

I think the real question I’m asking is does enlightened people believe in supernatural deities? If not, why? And if so, how might the interaction differ than if a normal person were to approach it? 

As far as I’m aware, enlightenment is the realisation of universal consciousness. But it doesn’t tell you about the ‘details’ of what can exist. I can see the rejection of the omnipotent God, but what about ‘lesser Gods’? Eg. Beings from occult or the Roman Pantheon for example? 

I am imagining a world (thought experiment) where God and Satan exist. ‘God’ in this sense is more like Yaldaboath (deity of light and creation) and imagined by consciousness as per everything else. But he is still a deity nonetheless, and has an influence on existence.

In short, pray to Yaldaboath or you’re going to hell. The enlightened person could recognise the fundamental nature of reality, he could also say that Yaldaboath is imaginary, but that doesn’t change the fact his egoic self is going to hell if he doesn’t worship this deity.

I would expect the enlightened person to join mainstream religion in this case, as naturally as the enlightened person would eat, or jump out the way of a moving car. Avoiding hell should be as natural as not dying in the ‘real’ world. He may recognize his ‘true’ nature is beyond pain and death, but I don’t see why that should stop him preventing his own suffering in hell (even if he sees suffering as illusory) 

I can only conclude the enlightened person does not join mainstream religion because they don’t actually believe that hell/Yaldaboath etc. exists. In the same way there is no need to jump out the way if a car is physically not there (as opposed to being physically there but still ‘illusory’) - but how can the enlightened person be so sure of this? 

What am I missing? Or am I just wrong and it is never really talked about? 

PS. I am not religious, nor advocating it. Just curious about the question.

 

[An young being]

13 minutes ago, woohoo123 said:

I can only conclude the enlightened person does not join mainstream religion because they don’t actually believe that hell/Yaldaboath etc. exists. In the same way there is no need to jump out the way if a car is physically not there (as opposed to being physically there but still ‘illusory’) - but how can the enlightened person be so sure of this? 

What am I missing? Or am I just wrong and it is never really talked about? 

 

Simply because nobody has experienced such things, they have only heard the stories.

[Razard86]

Sigh....so much misunderstanding in this thread.

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, woohoo123 said:

but that doesn’t change the fact his egoic self is going to hell if he doesn’t worship this deity.

That is superstition.

After Awakening you will see all that religious belief as silly, misguided nonsense, designed by sleeping people.

Awakening is about direct consciousness of reality, not about beliefs in human made myths. Worshipping people or deities in antithetical to this work.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[woohoo123]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is superstition.

Hmm I’m thinking about this more from a necessity point of view. How is going to hell any more of a superstition than say - going to jail because you don’t pay your taxes? (but I guess enlightened people still pay their taxes) Or is it purely empiricism and watching others in this case which delineates these? 
 

My understanding is awakening doesn’t change the fact you need to still interact with the world around you. So if deities are part of your immediate experience, worshipping God would be no different from bowing to the Queen or not pissing of the general public.

or is the main point here deities have never been part of direct experience for enlightened people? So therefore always remain as belief and superstition? (When I say direct experience I mean something which effects is immediately observable, like gravity for example)

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Sigh....so much misunderstanding in this thread.

Apologies, mind give some pointers please? Or if it’s pointless to talk about, will accept that too.

 

8 hours ago, An young being said:

Simply because nobody has experienced such things, they have only heard the stories.

Yes this is what I was wondering…. which is quite interesting. Or I may be missing something entirely

[Leo Gura]

@woohoo123 Have you ever seen a deity? Have you ever seen Hell?

Maybe before you go worrying about deities and hell-realms you should discover Absolute Truth. Then see what remains. The point of Absolute Truth is that it cuts through all the human bullshit.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[An young being]

4 hours ago, woohoo123 said:

Yes this is what I was wondering…. which is quite interesting. Or I may be missing something entirely

The only time you will be experiencing them is in your dreams, as far as I know. But, dreams can be anything and it has no rules or logic as such when we are awake, so they can be considered real when you are dreaming and imaginative when you are awake. Don't underestimate dreams, either!

[woohoo123]

I think it depends on what I mean by ‘deity’ and how it presents itself.

If deity means it physically appears before you and said ‘I’m going to hurt you unless you do X’ I imagine most people (enlightened or not) would comply. ‘Deity’ here could be replaced with a soldier, criminal, abuser, etc. ‘hell’ in this wider question can be replaced with the experience of physical suffering. At this point, whether or not it is a ‘deity’ or ‘hell’ is kind of irrelevant. The question is will an enlightened person avoid physical suffering if they had the choice? I guess that is down to the individual.

‘Deity’ can also mean an inanimate statue or a name in a book, where the worshipper has to (more obviously) ‘construct thoughts’/story to ‘bring it to life’. In this case most people (enlightened or not) would likely agree this is belief and not change their behaviour. That is until the point where there is sufficient empirical evidence or personal experience to suggest that praying to the statue brings about observable difference. As the belief grows this becomes more and more like the first case I described. For example ‘deity’ in this context can be something like bacteria. Most of us have not observed it, nor does the average person have the means to prove its existence to themselves, but we feel its consequences and we change our behaviour accordingly. Even though some may argue bacteria doesn’t ‘exist’ (and only its effects exist) to me it ‘exists by proxy’ given we have to deal with its effects.

[caspex]

Actually a lot of spiritually advanced people in India believe in deities or have experienced them. You can hear about siddhis achieved through worship of deities by certain people. Sure it doesn't necessarily mean awareness of the absolute truth but a lot of these people are aware that everything is one at least, and embody some level of this truth much better than most of us here on the forum. For examples, Neem Karoli Baba was a devotee of Hanumana and one look at his face tells you he was embodying love and oneness better than most of us.

It's mostly western spirituality that separates itself from religion. Even a lot of yogis here who we might consider enlightened believe in such deities. Adishankracharya who basically birthed this whole advaita spirituality, was arguably a lot more intelligent and conscious than a lot of us here, yet he also believed in supernatural entities which is evident through the many poems and songs he wrote for various deities. It's confusing for many why someone who is so non-dual would also be into Bhakti(worshipping), and no, it was not simply because of cultural brainwashing. There is something more to all this deity jargon than simple belief.

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Swarnim said:

There is something more to all this deity jargon than simple belief.

Just as the physical world exists, it is possible that there are dimensions that we cannot see or understand, entities on other levels. One thing is the absolute, and another is the relative, the cosmos. We know nothing about the cosmos, it is smart to be open to everything