Time is also a form of qualia

[OldManCorcoran]

I noticed that there is a "naive realism" idea of time. Naive realism is the idea, for example, that certain qualia is external to the mind. So the example that there is a qualitative red apple out in the world in addition to the red apple generated to represent it in your mind. If you Google the term you will find image examples.

Time is also a form of qualia. Say with a red apple there is some objective measure of that thing, so the color red is a certain frequency of light, with real time there is some objective element of math which is not qualitative.

But the actual experience of a passage of time is a product of the mind, it is a very subtle element from a series of different appearances happening in a row. 10 seconds can seem really long, it can seem really short. That experienced progression is produced by the mind.

Without that, time exists in exactly 0 seconds. Both the beginning and end of the universe, in absence of the mind tricks, happens entirely in 0 seconds. The end of the universe is so simultaneous with the beginning that it, in reality, does not happen at all, since it ends before it progresses from any beginning.

The true face of time ought to be equivalent to in a dreamless sleep. The entirety of that deep sleep happens in precisely 0 seconds. The entire life of the universe happens in the same absolute 0 seconds. This must all be something happening within that 0, but the existence of appearing phenomena and the human mind etc is able to create a sensed "length" of time inside what is in actuality, total flat absolute 0.

I wonder what to do with such information.

[Sir Oberon]

5 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

 

I wonder what to do with such information.

Go talk to a priest?

[Sir Oberon]

Anyway, time compression and expansion is a phenomenon that I have experienced.  And I have heard that the colors we perceive are everything under the rainbow but that particular color, not sure how that works. 

I do hear you though, very interesting.  I get the intuition? at times that everything has already happened ? 

[Osaid]

I remember reading about some theory like this a while ago, which was something like "everything has already happened, but your brain just has to process it first", or something like that.

[Osaid]

14 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

I wonder what to do with such information.

I think it ties into your existence of what you are in a very deep way.

Through logic, you've kind of recontextualized time into something that isn't really conventionally seen as time. Not that this is incorrect, but it might just be pointing to the idea that time is conceptualized or perceived inaccurately, or something like that. 

[Sir Oberon]

And yet, it is, was, and will be.  Time-dependent or not.

[Leo Gura]

Becoming conscious of what time is, is a very tricky thing. Requires serious consciousness.

[Sir Oberon]

Hi Leo, nice forum.  I think there is a deep mystery woven into creation that we all can agree on.  Interesting how there is a truth or a thread that materializes.   And it shifts and changes with heightened awareness.  Science is good.

[An young being]

36 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

I wonder what to do with such information.

Different animals experience time differently. That's how flies are able to dodge everything we throw at them. They are like a mini flash.

What I think we can learn from them is this:

1. Anything that exists need an observer to be experienced. This may or may not prove whether everything exists outside our perception.

2. Without time, there is no relative way to experience the universe. So, time is the most basic need for an experience.

3. Our brain is like a video camera which takes in the sensory inputs and processes it as rapidly as it can. How much frame rate it can generate determines how fast we experience time.

4. Some dreams may seem longer in length, showing that brain is capable of processing time more slowly when it's quit.

5. I don't think we can never escape time, even during Spiritual experiences, as we seem to return back to the body only after some time.

[Sir Oberon]

Yet time is elusory, fleeting.   Right now I am, what I was a second ago is gone, and what is coming at me is out there.  It's coming, as it's leaving. So what holds it all together?  Memories.   Without memories, there would not be time.  Time compression and expansion is just another phenomenon of the brain.  My question then, is there a library?

[An young being]

36 minutes ago, Sir Oberon said:

Yet time is elusory, fleeting.   Right now I am, what I was a second ago is gone, and what is coming at me is out there.  It's coming, as it's leaving. So what holds it all together?  Memories.   Without memories, there would not be time.  Time compression and expansion is just another phenomenon of the brain.  My question then, is there a library?

We already have a library, don't we? In future, we would reach a point where we may be able to record all the experiences of individuals and experience it even in an another body or artificially create experiences with our creativity, atleast closer to reality. Virtual visual experiences are already getting closer to reality. Just a few years have passed since universe's existence, still there are billions of years left, so no need to depend on god to create a library. And God wouldn't mind losing a few seconds , does he?

Regarding memories, you are right. But, it is possible to not have a memory and still experience things. It will be like a new born child seeing new things every second of your life. Unfortunately, we will mostly be crying!

[puporing]

What if you could verify it through Awakening?

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

I wonder what to do with such information.

Without time nothing gets done.

[Sir Oberon]

8 hours ago, An young being said:

We already have a library, don't we? In future, we would reach a point where we may be able to record all the experiences of individuals and experience it even in an another body or artificially create experiences with our creativity, atleast closer to reality. Virtual visual experiences are already getting closer to reality. Just a few years have passed since universe's existence, still there are billions of years left, so no need to depend on god to create a library. And God wouldn't mind losing a few seconds , does he?

Regarding memories, you are right. But, it is possible to not have a memory and still experience things. It will be like a new born child seeing new things every second of your life. Unfortunately, we will mostly be crying!

Good points.  I guess we could call the library the universal mind and all experiential phenomena.    Time without memories would exist as long as there is a sentient consciousness, of course.  As a child I have very few memories, however, things happened, and time passed.  

[Sir Oberon]

Do we have a soul, is it timeless?

 

The timeless soul is said to be immortal, a continuous thread of energy that runs through our existence, transcending time and space. It is the wellspring of our emotions, passions, and desires. It is the seat of our intuition, our higher self, and our connection to the divine.

Googled..

If this is true, then it leaves room for all things to have already happened.  When we are in that immortal space there would be no time, just the recollection of our coming and going.. emotions, passions, and desires.

Perhaps a good measurement of the state of our soul could be, what we ultimately desire.  For some, it is a union with God.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Sir Oberon

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

I noticed that there is a "naive realism" idea of time. Naive realism is the idea, for example, that certain qualia is external to the mind. So the example that there is a qualitative red apple out in the world in addition to the red apple generated to represent it in your mind. If you Google the term you will find image examples.

Time is also a form of qualia. Say with a red apple there is some objective measure of that thing, so the color red is a certain frequency of light, with real time there is some objective element of math which is not qualitative.

But the actual experience of a passage of time is a product of the mind, it is a very subtle element from a series of different appearances happening in a row. 10 seconds can seem really long, it can seem really short. That experienced progression is produced by the mind.

Without that, time exists in exactly 0 seconds. Both the beginning and end of the universe, in absence of the mind tricks, happens entirely in 0 seconds. The end of the universe is so simultaneous with the beginning that it, in reality, does not happen at all, since it ends before it progresses from any beginning.

The true face of time ought to be equivalent to in a dreamless sleep. The entirety of that deep sleep happens in precisely 0 seconds. The entire life of the universe happens in the same absolute 0 seconds. This must all be something happening within that 0, but the existence of appearing phenomena and the human mind etc is able to create a sensed "length" of time inside what is in actuality, total flat absolute 0.

I wonder what to do with such information.

It just means nothing ever happened. LOL. That is what that means. Nothing happened at all, or ever has happened.

[Sir Oberon]

Well if nothing is happening, then where do we get the Naive Realism from?    Nothing can't produce anything, therefore I need another drink before it all disappears.

[UnbornTao]

So each of us interested should be contemplating what time is. Great! Go do that.

[Ninja_pig]

From the physics point of view, time is just another dimension like the 3 spatial dimensions. Relativity defines a "reference frame" where all objects inside the reference frame have the same velocity. From the perspective of any given reference frame, it is not moving through space at all, only time. However, other reference frames, which do seem to be moving though space, seem to be experiencing time differently. So we see here that the passage of time is the same for all observers from their own perspective.

I honestly have no idea what the implications of this are. It will take far more contemplation.

[Sir Oberon]

2 hours ago, Ninja_pig said:

From the physics point of view, time is just another dimension like the 3 spatial dimensions. Relativity defines a "reference frame" where all objects inside the reference frame have the same velocity. From the perspective of any given reference frame, it is not moving through space at all, only time. However, other reference frames, which do seem to be moving though space, seem to be experiencing time differently. So we see here that the passage of time is the same for all observers from their own perspective.

I honestly have no idea what the implications of this are. It will take far more contemplation.

That's hard to get a grip on,  

The first tenet of relativity is that the rules governing the way things move and interact are the same for two observers moving at constant velocity with respect to one another. An object can be in motion for one observer and at rest for another.    

Einstein believed that time is an illusion, that both the future and the past are unchangeable, and will play out exactly the way they were meant to. Many physicists share this view, but some have alternate explanations for how things will play out in the long run.

Googled..

Is everything converging to some omega point?

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Sir Oberon