What is LOVE?, or: Why we have to go to war

[vibv]

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't know what love is. Just a word. Why so much attachment to words? They only have the meaning you want to give them. They are barriers, structures. That if you don't realize that reality is love/god/etc, it's wrong. first forget the words, then realize what reality is. It is indefinable. It seems that you are attached to your mind, to concepts, stories. If you don't delete them all, you will only have more stories.

Words are pointers to different aspects of reality.

I love to use my mind, it's one of the greatest pleasures. That doesn't mean that I'm not familiar with states of no-mind and practice letting go of everything regularly.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, vibv said:

That doesn't mean that I'm not familiar with states of no-mind and practice letting go of everything regularly

If that's true, and you really can let go everything, you will agree about that saying that reality is love is wanting to enclose reality in a concept, and that is exactly what illusion is. You can say: when I say love it is not a concept, it is LOVE, which is not human love. That means absolutely nothing. Love is a word used to indicate a feeling towards aspects of life that we like, that fill us with a positive feeling. babies, nature, etc., in contrast to other things that don't, like sewers full of dead rats, cancer or the torture of children. So saying reality is love, for me it just means putting barriers on reality, compartmentalizing it, locking it in a mental structure. the true tao cannot be said, it seems like a good phrase to me

[Yimpa]

Oh, for the Love of God… Love is God is Younity and Division-inity! 

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If that's true, and you really can let go everything, you will agree about that saying that reality is love is wanting to enclose reality in a concept, and that is exactly what illusion is. You can say: when I say love it is not a concept, it is LOVE, which is not human love. That means absolutely nothing. Love is a word used to indicate a feeling towards aspects of life that we like, that fill us with a positive feeling. babies, nature, etc., in contrast to other things that don't, like sewers full of dead rats, cancer or the torture of children. So saying reality is love, for me it just means putting barriers on reality, compartmentalizing it, locking it in a mental structure.

Human love is like a very dulled version of the real thing. When you experience it you just can't think of a better word.

Quote

the true tao cannot be said, it seems like a good phrase to me

That's right. But you can point in its direction.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

Human love is like a very dulled version of the real thing. When you experience it you just can't think of a better word.

Yeah you also could say that reality is joy, or freedom. It is the feeling you have when you free your mind. but is reality really free? Or is it just a feeling that you, the self, have when you free yourself from attachment and fear, and structures? 

[vibv]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah you also could say that reality is joy, or freedom. It is the feeling you have when you free your mind. but is reality really free? Or is it just a feeling that you, the self, have when you free yourself from attachment and fear, and structures? 

Love is different.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, vibv said:

Love is different.

So what it means? That everything that is is love because if not it wouldn't be? Sounds logic, but is reality that? Not sure. A lot of logic construction in spirituality. I try to forget all of them. 

[Schizophonia]

self reconnaissance

[Yimpa]

Love does not care about your biases about Love.

That is not a mistake, it’s Absolute Perfection.

If God catered to all your fantasies about how reality should be - as if it was the only Truth - then God would not be Infinite.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If that's true, and you really can let go everything, you will agree about that saying that reality is love is wanting to enclose reality in a concept, and that is exactly what illusion is. You can say: when I say love it is not a concept, it is LOVE, which is not human love. That means absolutely nothing. Love is a word used to indicate a feeling towards aspects of life that we like, that fill us with a positive feeling. babies, nature, etc., in contrast to other things that don't, like sewers full of dead rats, cancer or the torture of children. So saying reality is love, for me it just means putting barriers on reality, compartmentalizing it, locking it in a mental structure. the true tao cannot be said, it seems like a good phrase to me

In hindsight, Leo's entire method of understanding reality is based on splitting it up into "different" and "deeper" insights, so it makes sense why he conceptually hones in on the world "Love" so hard. He had a particular insight that made him realize that facet of reality, and he has actually been using different terms like this for all of his insights, like "Infinity", "Solipsism", "Love", "Truth." So when someone that actually understands what they are puts it into one term like "enlightenment", it contradicts his way of understanding reality and makes him recoil.

But of course these awakenings are not "it", and truth/enlightenment/reality cannot separate itself into different parts of truth. Of course not.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Osaid said:

He had a particular insight that made him realize that facet of reality, and he has actually been using different terms like this for all of his insights, like "Infinity", "Solipsism", "Love", "Truth."

I think that Leo is focused on increasing the depth of understanding of the ego. That is, look for mystical states to translate them into the language of the ego and thus have a deeper and more insightful ego. the mystical state is a means, not an end, and the psychedelic is the tool. Discarding meditation for me is the symptom that what you really want is an intelligent, deep ego, with a high level of understanding. If you see meditation as something fundamental, it is because what you want is to dissolve the ego. the end is not greater understanding but greater openness. You are not looking for specific depth but permanent breadth. In total breadth is total understanding: no limits. you can't translate it into the linear language of the mind, or so I think at the moment. we will see

[Osaid]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that Leo is focused on increasing the depth of understanding of the ego. That is, look for mystical states to translate them into the language of the ego and thus have a deeper and more insightful ego

Something like that, but the problem is that Leo does not understand that he is doing this, and he does not see it that way. For him, psychedelics are not a tool, but the only way to Truth and God. He is misinterpreting his experiences and results and coming to the wrong conclusions. Psychedelics have become a massive distraction for him, and he has created a seemingly impenetrable cognitive dissonance for himself to prevent him from seeing this. He has quite literally abandoned the idea of reality being "one", and this is not even a strawman, this is what he fundamentally believes. He thinks he has found something "more true" in psychedelics. And as a result the idea of enlightenment does not even fit into his cognitive framework anymore.

When it comes to existential deception, it just never fucking changes. It's the same shit structurally across history. Leo is not enlightened, and his thought-based identity is tricking him. He is making the classic fundamental error of believing that something exists beyond the absolute, and thus he still fundamentally believes that reality is dualistic. The complexity of the deception changes, but it's always fundamentally based on dualisms. Look out for dualisms!

Edited October 4, 2023 by Osaid

[vibv]

57 minutes ago, Osaid said:

 Look out for dualisms!

That's really funny coming from someone who divides humans in enlightened and not enlightened.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

he still fundamentally believes that reality is dualistic.

Does he really. I thought he understood it is One. Are you saying this because of the Infinity of Gods video, or has he made other implications. I don't think any advanced Spiritual teacher thinks that Reality is optimally dualistic.

[Osaid]

53 minutes ago, vibv said:

That's really funny coming from someone who divides humans in enlightened and not enlightened.

Language tends to be inherently divisive in that way, but where are my dualisms pointing to and where are Leo's dualisms pointing to? One is pointing to more dualisms, and one is pointing to a lack thereof. The distinction is made because I have to point to your experience of yourself somehow. 

Leo says that you can realize what you are twice, and many more times, at much deeper levels. I am saying you can only realize what you are once, because to realize yourself twice means that you previously didn't realize something beyond yourself.

[Osaid]

44 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I thought he understood it is One.

No, that's why he keeps ascribing dualisms to consciousness, like "higher consciousness" and "degrees of consciousness", etc. His entire model and understanding of reality is just dualistic. It's like a scientist studying an atom. He is conflating his results as if it has something to do with Truth or God, but Truth and God don't deal in dualisms. This is why he scoffs at non-duality and enlightenment now. This is what I've been trying to say this entire time. He might deny this, but it is what he is doing.

Could go on forever with these posts.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Osaid

[Sir Oberon]

Ops, my message got delayed, and missed the evolving thread.   Never mind me... but scientists now are developing a new model of the atom.    It's far more mysterious than once perceived.   Consciousness ranks right up there.   

Edited October 4, 2023 by Sir Oberon

[Sir Oberon]

I think therefore I am, or I am therefore I think.    Synaptic semantics.... I am.

[cetus]

@Princess Arabia @Sir Oberon The two of you are hijacking this thread.

* Replies hidden by mod.

Edited October 5, 2023 by cetus

[Sir Oberon]

OK, I hear you, so then what is love, and why do we go to war?  Could it be some kind of misunderstanding at times?