What is LOVE?, or: Why we have to go to war

[vibv]

I just posted this answer to a question about the nature of LOVE on another thread. I think it deserves its own thread. Here we go:

What is LOVE?

LOVE is something completely different from the human emotion of love. LOVE is beyond good and evil.

LOVE equals GOODNESS. But it's a greater form of Goodness that has nothing to do with your human fantasies about what's good and what's bad.

To realize Absolute Goodness you have to be able to leave the perspective of your ego and consider everything from a holistic standpoint. It's not necessarily good for you as a finite form  – which most of the time means good in regards to your survival. But it's Good for the whole in the sense that it maximizes Love.

You want an example? Let's take war.

War leads to a lot of suffering, so you wouldn't call it good, except if you were the initiator of the war – that already shows how relative your notions of good and bad are.

But for the greater Goodness war and all the suffering that comes with it leads to the establishment of True Peace. True Peace is not the absence of the possibility of war. It is us understanding the suffering and consequences of war very deeply, which requires to fully live through it – and then coming together and consciously deciding that we don't want to continue that anymore.

The resulting experience of True Peace wouldn't be possible if the opposite - war - would just not exist. It can only be created by deeply and experientally understanding what it means to be fully at war – and then recognizing that it was false and it is not what we fundamentally are.

But first you have to go to war.

You can't skip that step if you want to really know what you truly are. That's what LOVE is about. It loves itself so deeply that it creates its exact opposite to be able to find out and understand what it is – even fully knowing what that entails.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

All of this is a mental twist to fit the idea that reality is love, that a medieval ax battle where the survivors are impaled is love. I think it is better to erase the label "love" and open yourself to the reality of existence without needing to fit into corsets or concepts. The concept "love" is a barrier, as any other concept. 

[vibv]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

All of this is a mental twist to fit the idea that reality is love, that a medieval ax battle where the survivors are impaled is love. I think it is better to erase the label "love" and open yourself to the reality of existence without needing to fit into corsets or concepts. The concept "love" is a barrier, as any other concept. 

LOVE is not a concept, it is the only thing that exists. It's just another name for God.

It hints at a deeply fundamental truth about reality.

It's actually incredibly ingenious design to construct our experience in a way that makes it seem as if Love being the fundamental reality must be impossible.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

59 minutes ago, vibv said:

LOVE is not a concept, it is the only thing that exists. It's just another name for God.

It hints at a deeply fundamental truth about reality.

It's actually incredibly ingenious design to construct our experience in a way that makes it seem as if Love being the fundamental reality must be impossible.

Then why the word love? 

[Sir Oberon]

What is life if there is no tomorrow?  The wall of death awaits us all.  Some claim to have seen beyond however still a deep mystery to me.  If there is nothing more then life is truly just a dream, who is the dreamer and what was love for?  

What is love without our goodness and something more transcended?  War is awful, although it happens for its own reasons.  Where do we draw the line between love and hate?   Killing for our country.  If my borders were attacked, I would have to go to war, for the love of my country!

[vibv]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then why the word love? 

You can see it as a pointer or hint. It's like a litmus test for awakening. If you don't see that everything is LOVE you're not conscious enough to see it right now.

Not only is everything completely intended, it's also absolutely perfect and it's impossible to do anything wrong (but please don't misuse that statement for egoic purposes..)

If you're suffering you're not aligned with Truth. Because Truth=Love.

A common error is confusing that with the pursuit to remove suffering from your experience or see it as anything wrong, but that's only the ego, because that, too, is perfect and part of LOVE.

Wait a minute? Isn't that a contradiction!?

There are two levels of suffering: Metaphysical and relative suffering. Or call it major and minor suffering. The trick is to not suffer from suffering anymore and seeing through it, because it's a fundamental part of relativity and nothing to remove.

But it's not even about the pursuit to stop the pursuit to not suffer anymore... It's an infinite regress, until you realize: THIS is already it. There's nothing to do – but also nothing to stop doing.

At the end you're just where you started. The journey brings you only to the point where you already are.

But this "where you are" is in eternal motion and moving towards LOVE. Because LOVE is alive and evolving.

It's the ultimate dichotomy: You are always the same, but constantly changing. Both sides are equally true.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[vibv]

10 minutes ago, Sir Oberon said:

What is life if there is no tomorrow?  The wall of death awaits us all.  Some claim to have seen beyond however still a deep mystery to me.  If there is nothing more then life is truly just a dream, who is the dreamer and what was love for?  

What is love without our goodness and something more transcended?  War is awful, although it happens for its own reasons.  Where do we draw the line between love and hate?   Killing for our country.  If my borders were attacked, I would have to go to war, for the love of my country!

I don't say you should go to war, but that war is a fundamental part of our process of evolution. It's nothing wrong, but it's also nothing wrong with doing everything in your power to end it once and for all.

War is nothing to pursuit, but also nothing to condemn.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Sir Oberon]

11 minutes ago, vibv said:

I don't say you should go to war, but that war is a fundamental part of our process of evolution. It's nothing wrong, but it's also nothing wrong with doing everything in your power to end it once and for all.

It seems to me that most wars are started by greed, religion, and converging populations into finite territory.   Call that evolution if you will, how do we avoid it?    Having a more enlightened approach to life could help.  Look at our world, the power structures are shifting fast, I do hope we can manage our differences without another world war.  Perhaps we will one day live on a planet that does not have war, it would truly be an enlightened society if that was ever possible...  maybe this is why you say, war is good because it's a means to an end.  Ugly road to be on...

Edited October 4, 2023 by Sir Oberon

[Yimpa]

I went to war with my father a few months ago. We both came out stronger and healthier in our relationship after the dust has been settled.

If you knew how much suffering we both had to go through, you would never want to even go there. I don’t want to minimize this point. 

Are you brave enough to go into war, with the intention of not dominating another, but to integrate them towards higher Love?

[vibv]

3 minutes ago, Sir Oberon said:

It seems to me that most wars are started by greed, religion, and converging populations into finite territory.   Call that evolution if you will, how do we avoid it?    

Massively raising consciousness.

[Sir Oberon]

9 minutes ago, vibv said:

Massively raising consciousness.

I'm in... just a small fish, however, who leads the pool.  There is potential.  I will try not to get hot-headed in traffic anymore!

[Sir Oberon]

12 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I went to war with my father a few months ago. We both came out stronger and healthier in our relationship after the dust has been settled.

If you knew how much suffering we both had to go through, you would never want to even go there. I don’t want to minimize this point. 

Are you brave enough to go into war, with the intention of not dominating another, but to integrate them towards higher Love?

I go to war with my son every now and again.  I take into account his struggles,  so he often wins.  It's OK, I love him all the same..

[vibv]

19 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I went to war with my father a few months ago. We both came out stronger and healthier in our relationship after the dust has been settled.

If you knew how much suffering we both had to go through, you would never want to even go there. I don’t want to minimize this point. 

Are you brave enough to go into war, with the intention of not dominating another, but to integrate them towards higher Love?

I don't want to go to war and I probably and hopefully never will. I also don't suggest that anyone should do that.

My point is: war is a creation of LOVE. Understanding that is where it gets really challenging.

I don't want to minimize your pain. War is excrutiating for those involved and brings a lot of suffering to innocent people (innocent meaning: they didn't consciously choose the war).

Your pain is important to end the war! Pain is what will end the war. Tears and despair is what will end the war. It needs to be expressed as consciously as possible - if one is ready - and worked through instead of suppressing it.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Yimpa]

Just now, Sir Oberon said:

I go to war with my son every now and again.  I take into account his struggles,  so he often wins.  It's OK, I love him all the same..

The end goal is for both sides to come out as the winner.

Now that’s an almost impossible feat to accomplish.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

I also don't suggest that anyone should do that.

I don’t suggest it either, because it’s extremely complex and dependent on the dynamics of the parties involved.

It will happen organically.

[Yimpa]

Some of the best wars have happened on this forum, if you’ve been paying attention 

[Sir Oberon]

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The end goal is for both sides to come out as the winner.

Now that’s an almost impossible feat to accomplish.

I have compulsive disorders and my son Is Autistic.   We do work together well at times...

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Sir Oberon said:

I have compulsive disorders and my son Is Autistic.   We do work together well at times...

Me too! I’m sure my father has autism, but he was not diagnosed as it wasn’t a thing back in his day. 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then why the word love? 

Because I love my father.

Consider that your love can expand so much so that even the ones that you used to hate can completely turn around.

This includes anything that you hate.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Yimpa

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, vibv said:

If you don't see that everything is LOVE you're not conscious enough to see it right now.

I don't know what love is. Just a word. Why so much attachment to words? They only have the meaning you want to give them. They are barriers, structures. That if you don't realize that reality is love/god/etc, it's wrong. first forget the words, then realize what reality is. It is indefinable. It seems that you are attached to your mind, to concepts, stories. If you don't delete them all, you will only have more stories.