Nihilist here, Fell like there is nothing Objective to believe in.

[EntropicChaos]

HI! Im new here. i've watched videos on Actualized.org and leo, he's the most logical religious figurehead i've seen so far. Im at a stage of my personal development wherein i've a lot of religious believes and have read up on a lot of Friedrich Nietzsche's work and the philosophy of existential nihilism and parodically believe it as a personal truth. I find it harder to traverse the world with when it comes to truth, developing a personal truth, and becoming self actualized. With polarizing political climate and questioning every form of "Truth" there is to be, sometimes even science, i don't feel like im at peace with the world. everywhere i go, (particularly  politics ) there is always different truths and sides to things and it's hard to find a clear and cut answer on things with propaganda, culture wars, disinformation, and even whenever i find something that is both empirically and self evident, people will not listen to it,  The biggest example i can take on this is believes i struggle with on lgbtq identities. My Lgbtq identity is self evident to me, and also empirically proven, but who cares if people dismiss everything for their own personal moral or political believes on the matter. Proof and truth doesn't seem to matter here. all that matters is power and persuasion.

Moreover, what is there to believe in? Nothing seems to be too objective to me, i don't want to make my own believe or adhere to someone else's because none of it is objective, it's all bullshit. im hoping someone kinda understand where im coming form and what's  going on.

 

the only real KIND of objective thing to me personally is tested evidence form the scientific method. but that's about it. and THAT can be corrupted by Power and Persuasion as well. Politics man.

[EntropicChaos]

don't want to be booted form the forums for my personal believes or lack there of. I personally believe in cosmic nihilism- and that we are just a byproduct of Entropy, luck, and sheer will. that is all.

[r0ckyreed]

If "nothing is objective," then is that a subjective claim or an objective claim? If it is an objective claim, then your statement is false. If it is a subjective claim, then it is just your opinion and not applicable to everything.

Edited October 4, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[EntropicChaos]

fair.

[r0ckyreed]

There is nothing wrong with relativism and nihilism. To say nihilism is wrong or right is to also assume an objective fact. The only thing I would say is "wrong" with nihilism is if you just sit in meaninglessness. Reality/life is meaningless, but that doesn't mean that you cannot create any meaning for yourself. Reality is meaningless so that you can create whatever meaning that you want. It would be much worse if reality had a goal/purpose but it was a purpose that you didn't find meaningful or worthwhile. Meaning is subjective but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Meaning is what you find worthwhile and fulfilling. It is a human emotion. But everything we do is based off of emotions, and there is nothing wrong with that. Again, wrongness doesn't exist right? So, if you are a true nihilist, then even the notion that "Life is meaningless" becomes meaningless, and the things that bother you are a subjective matter and not an objective one.

[Leo Gura]

You're getting lost in human invented crap. Throw all that away and focus on exploring Consciousness.

Consciousness is Absolute Truth, and from it derives everything wholesome, healthy, and good.

Science is not objective, science is a human invention and it will never capture Consciousness.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, EntropicChaos said:

HI! Im new here. i've watched videos on Actualized.org and leo, he's the most logical religious figurehead i've seen so far. Im at a stage of my personal development wherein i've a lot of religious believes and have read up on a lot of Friedrich Nietzsche's work and the philosophy of existential nihilism and parodically believe it as a personal truth. I find it harder to traverse the world with when it comes to truth, developing a personal truth, and becoming self actualized. With polarizing political climate and questioning every form of "Truth" there is to be, sometimes even science, i don't feel like im at peace with the world. everywhere i go, (particularly  politics ) there is always different truths and sides to things and it's hard to find a clear and cut answer on things with propaganda, culture wars, disinformation, and even whenever i find something that is both empirically and self evident, people will not listen to it,  The biggest example i can take on this is believes i struggle with on lgbtq identities. My Lgbtq identity is self evident to me, and also empirically proven, but who cares if people dismiss everything for their own personal moral or political believes on the matter. Proof and truth doesn't seem to matter here. all that matters is power and persuasion.

Moreover, what is there to believe in? Nothing seems to be too objective to me, i don't want to make my own believe or adhere to someone else's because none of it is objective, it's all bullshit. im hoping someone kinda understand where im coming form and what's  going on.

 

the only real KIND of objective thing to me personally is tested evidence form the scientific method. but that's about it. and THAT can be corrupted by Power and Persuasion as well. Politics man.

Objectivity is a human concept. There is no objectivity. Objectivity is the creation of group think. For example at one point poetry was considered absurd and a violation of the "proper" use of language. Now you would think that poetry is objectively a proper use of language. You only think that because it is accepted on massive scale. For something to be considered objective it has to be agreed upon. 

A chair is only a chair because we agree on the label, the definition, and the image associated with it. If I called a banana a chair you would claim that I was objectively wrong....but if I got the whole world to agree with me that a banana was a chair....then who is the one that is wrong? You would be the only one by yourself arguing that we are all wrong and we would silence you and thus a banana is now a chair. Ta da!!!!!

So objectivity is just group think. Reality is just pure subjectivity, which means it has no inherent meaning and we are just making up meaning. To make something up is what we call a lie, or bullshit. So the secret is...everything is bullshit!! LOL!!! To truly understand reality....you have to drop labels. Notice you bring up the LGBTQ...that is just more labels. You are NOT a label and as long as you think you are....you will always be fighting against something. Because Good and Evil is created through the Tree of Knowledge. When the world of knowledge is based on labels....you create evil or what we call "THEM or OTHER, OR NOT ME."

Edited October 4, 2023 by Razard86

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, EntropicChaos said:

i've watched videos on Actualized.org and leo, he's the most logical religious figurehead i've seen so far

He’s also very bald… I mean, bold.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Yimpa

[Ajay0]

4 hours ago, EntropicChaos said:

HI! Im new here. i've watched videos on Actualized.org and leo, he's the most logical religious figurehead i've seen so far. Im at a stage of my personal development wherein i've a lot of religious believes and have read up on a lot of Friedrich Nietzsche's work and the philosophy of existential nihilism and parodically believe it as a personal truth. I find it harder to traverse the world with when it comes to truth, developing a personal truth, and becoming self actualized. With polarizing political climate and questioning every form of "Truth" there is to be, sometimes even science, i don't feel like im at peace with the world. everywhere i go, (particularly  politics ) there is always different truths and sides to things and it's hard to find a clear and cut answer on things with propaganda, culture wars, disinformation, and even whenever i find something that is both empirically and self evident, people will not listen to it,  The biggest example i can take on this is believes i struggle with on lgbtq identities. My Lgbtq identity is self evident to me, and also empirically proven, but who cares if people dismiss everything for their own personal moral or political believes on the matter. Proof and truth doesn't seem to matter here. all that matters is power and persuasion.

Moreover, what is there to believe in? Nothing seems to be too objective to me, i don't want to make my own believe or adhere to someone else's because none of it is objective, it's all bullshit. im hoping someone kinda understand where im coming form and what's  going on.

 

the only real KIND of objective thing to me personally is tested evidence form the scientific method. but that's about it. and THAT can be corrupted by Power and Persuasion as well. Politics man.

Nihilism is a product of western philosophy, which claims that all values and virtues are but mental abstractions without relevance of their own. This philosophy has been used by the nazis and serial criminals to justify their excesses.

Ancient eastern philosophy on the other hand considers values and virtues as significant in expansion of consciousness and attaining enlightenment or Buddhahood. 

Western philosophy is not ancient and time-tested, and consequently lacks in maturity and wisdom that comes with age, It has never produced a Buddha or enlightened being. 

In modern times, there has arose a female enlightened sage named Rajini Menon who had credited virtuous conduct and behavior with expansion of consciousness, and her eventual enlightenment. I had created a thread of her over here...

Some sayings of eastern sages to ponder in this regard ...

Quote

 

 

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1
 

When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon

 

An ethical life purifies the mind. By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine. ~ Sri Anandamayi Ma

 

Behavior influences consciousness. Right behavior means right consciousness. ~ Taisen Deshimaru

 

 

[EntropicChaos]

On 10/3/2023 at 7:14 PM, Leo Gura said:

You're getting lost in human invented crap. Throw all that away and focus on exploring Consciousness.

Consciousness is Absolute Truth, and from it derives everything wholesome, healthy, and good.

Science is not objective, science is a human invention and it will never capture Consciousness.

sorry to say this, but if science had no objectivity, we wouldn't be having this conversation, ya know, computers, technology, internet???? like, maybe some science isn't objective and some science gets corrupted by ideological bs but the raw pursuit of knowledge via the scientific method seems like the highest good to me. You should know dude, didn't you used to be a game designer? like, didn't you have to take computer science for that? if science is bs, how does that explain stuff the advancement of modern day technology an medicine?

[Leo Gura]

@EntropicChaos Scientific truths are relative to the state of consciousness you are in.

Science is mapping patterns within Consciousness.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Tomek6]

You are not wrong. Reality is a game of subjective interpretations. Our individual filters make us individual so arguing about the absolute truth is pointless. Ironically people with depression saying that everything is equal in being worthless are as close to enlightenement as people who say that everything is one and connected. These are two edges of the same sword. Everything is sacred. But if so, everything is meaningless at the same time. This reality is made to be playground of diversity. The problem is this is not a playground for us - for us it's a real thing including real pain. We cannot live without engagement so we fight first to survive and then for our comfort. Spiritual growth is not a path for everyone but when when it is for you, you may find peace.

I had very similar state to yours and then had a strong experience - I felt with every cell of my body, that there is only one Player. Every artist, celebrity, villain, politician, victim and so on are You on some level. That means that you have infinite profit from every second of all life that is. That is real and definitely not pointless. The problem is to set your restless mind in that consciousness. The bigger problem is that you can only read my words but you can't feel it. For you it's just another subjective thought and that is ok. You have to find your own comfortable position and live on. If you are here then it would be good to do something with yourself in this life

[universe]

Belief in the one true power.

 

[LastThursday]

On 10/4/2023 at 2:28 AM, EntropicChaos said:

don't want to be booted form the forums for my personal believes

Ah, so you do find meaning in something. You're not an absolute nihilist yet. 

From a broad enough perspective, leaning on meaning to live your life is fraught. You can still chop wood and carry water even if it's meaningless.

 

[ivankiss]

Meaning, no meaning... subject, object... all duality.

Absolute has no opposites. The Absolute does not require you to believe in objective truth or whatever else.

It only requires you to be absolutely conscious, right here, right now.

[Ninja_pig]

@EntropicChaos I think that you are correct that objective truth seems to be a very rare commodity right now, as it has always been. I think that your username captures the crux of the issue quite nicely. In an inherently chaotic world, any understanding or belief will always be an approximation of the actual truth. This is because the world is infinitely complex, but we are finite. From how you are talking, I am guessing that you think someone out there "knows the answer", but this is simply not the case. On my own spiritual journey, I have personally consulted numerous religious figures and scientists to try to see what they think of the world, and honestly there are only two kinds of people: People who have no idea what is going on, and people who are lying to themselves. The correct course of action is not to bewail this fact, but to embrace it, while also continuing to learn and live the best life you can according to the your own principles and what what you have personally discovered to be wise choices. I have basically just summarized the worldview of stage yellow of Spiral Dynamics, so watch Leo's video on that to understand more.

The fact that you have realized that all truths are relative means that your eyes are finally open, and you are now at the point where you can truly begin to learn about the world with a clear and unfiltered mind. Embrace the Nihilism, you will become comfortable with it, and eventually you will realize the beauty in it.

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, Tomek6 said:

You are not wrong. Reality is a game of subjective interpretations. Our individual filters make us individual so arguing about the absolute truth is pointless. Ironically people with depression saying that everything is equal in being worthless are as close to enlightenement as people who say that everything is one and connected. These are two edges of the same sword. Everything is sacred. But if so, everything is meaningless at the same time. This reality is made to be playground of diversity. The problem is this is not a playground for us - for us it's a real thing including real pain. We cannot live without engagement so we fight first to survive and then for our comfort. Spiritual growth is not a path for everyone but when when it is for you, you may find peace.

I had very similar state to yours and then had a strong experience - I felt with every cell of my body, that there is only one Player. Every artist, celebrity, villain, politician, victim and so on are You on some level. That means that you have infinite profit from every second of all life that is. That is real and definitely not pointless. The problem is to set your restless mind in that consciousness. The bigger problem is that you can only read my words but you can't feel it. For you it's just another subjective thought and that is ok. You have to find your own comfortable position and live on. If you are here then it would be good to do something with yourself in this life

They aren't you on some level...they are ABSOLUTELY YOU. That's what you don't get. There is ONLY YOU. Also...why are we talking spirituality in a non-spirituality thread?

[Tomek6]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

They aren't you on some level...they are ABSOLUTELY YOU. That's what you don't get. There is ONLY YOU. Also...why are we talking spirituality in a non-spirituality thread?

They are ABSOLUTELY YOU on some level. There is level where one cannot observe or experience it directly which is most human beings level

This thread is a spirituality thread

[UnbornTao]

Why do you think metaphysical belief is needed?

Nihilism is yet another strategy to boost one's ego. It's a way to justify one's own laziness and to think of oneself as more special than others. Belief is irrelevant and even antithetical when it comes to making discoveries. It is easy to fall into as it can give us a sense of certainty and security, which is fine as long as they're recognized as what they are. In the end, you don't need to believe in eggs in order to make an omelette. Or some such analogy.

You may already hold a bunch of beliefs that are unnecessary; eliminating them increases one's curiosity and capacity to learn. Less belief also means more powerful contemplation! If a belief can influence our experience so much, imagine what it'd be like to experience something directly.

 You only need to be honest about your experience.

Edited October 7, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

@UnbornTao Beliefs are an issue if they’re inflexible; not able to be challenged or questioned. Someone who’s lost in a web of unquestionable beliefs have mistaken them as fixed truths about reality.