Who else here doesn't disagree with Leo ?

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

There are pros and cons to New Age religion vs. traditional religion, that is true. But it's all very much religion: there is a sacred impulse within, and you identify the idealized version of that in some external idol or method, and you give some trust in that authority through faith. Even the most Neo of the Neo-Advaitans fall under this definition, but the idolization of especially one person (in this case Leo) makes it very clear. And the shame here (and why I call it a cargo cult) is that the idolization seems to actually not align with the methods expounded by the idol. There is no shame in being religious, but at least do what your religion actually says ?

Well, for one Leo is human and fallable. I (and I think most others) don't trust him blindly. Though I must admit that his words can exert a certain authority. I try to be as conscious as possible of it and remind myself that I must be my final authority.

Regardless I see him more like a researcher on the frontier of consciousness that shares his insights with us. The interpretations could be wrong, but they are very powerful pointers when you use them as a basis for your own contemplation.

As for religion: I think religions are great, and they don't need a leader! We just need way better religions.

In my understanding the core of a religion is ceremonial spirituality done together. I think this world needs more of it.

Edited October 2, 2023 by vibv

[Carl-Richard]

37 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

yeah but you were being extremely nit picky for no apparent reason, you clearly knew what he meant and then just proceeded to state the obvious, obviously he's not going to know about an experience he hasn't had?

Sure, you can call different teachers more or less advanced based on some intuition. It just doesn't mean much when the alternative is experience, certainly when that is expounded as the goal. After all, that is the reason why I align myself with basic non-duality and not 5-MeO-ism, because that is what aligns most with my experience.

Of course, it all has to start with an intuition, but then given the right methods and tools, you quickly find out whether or not the intuition is correct. I just see that the last step is missing for many of the Leo-ites. And when that is the case, it's easy to fall in the trap of disregarding your own experiences and intuitions to serve some preconceived notion.

And that is why I say that agreeing with Leo on absolutely everything is a bad sign, because it most likely means that you're disregarding some part of your own authentic self. We're all different people with different predispositions and experiences, so you should be careful about aligning yourself fully with the views of another person, especially when you know that some crucial aspect of their experience is different from yours (again, shitloads of 5-MeO-DMT).

Edited October 2, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Francis777]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And that is why I say that agreeing with Leo on absolutely everything is a bad sign, because it most likely means that you're disregarding some part of your own authentic self. We're all different people with different predispositions and experiences, so you should be careful about aligning yourself fully with the views of another person, especially when you know that some crucial aspect of their experience is different from yours (again, shitloads of 5-MeO-DMT).

yeah no I agree with you on that,  agreeing with Leo on everything is a bad sign, it usually means your not thinking for yourself.

But yeah you get my point, was just trying to say if you have a strong intuition that someone is genuinely more conscious than you, you shouldn't just completely disregard it due to lack of direct experience, this in itself could be a trap because your refusing to listen to the only non biased compass you've got (besides experience of course). Intuition is not of the logical mind so if you've got a gut feeling, I usually say go with it!

And yes I've never done 5-MEO before either, so I'm not definitively agreeing with Leo that something like infinity is true until I do or don't experience it. Despite every single one of my conceptual understandings and own workings out till now point exactly to it without fail, that's why I'm not going to simply disregard it completely until I know for sure. I'm actually grateful for this in some ways, it provides a nice cushion to sit on where I can decide to not stress the implications because I don't yet know if its true.

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Intuition is not of the logical mind so if you've got a gut feeling, I usually say go with it!

Wait… didn’t Leo say he was struggling with gut related health issues?

Fuck Leo, I should stop trusting his gut feelings!

Edited October 2, 2023 by Yimpa

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

And yes I've never done 5-MEO before either

I’ve always assumed you’ve taken 5-MeO for some reason. I think I assumed that based on the fact that you’re going through some kundalini issues.

I should watch my biased more. 

[An young being]

18 hours ago, Yimpa said:

“haha” is four letters, so I’m going to assume…. 4 trips!

I think that's the way we are assuming everything!

[An young being]

12 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve always assumed you’ve taken 5-MeO for some reason. I think I assumed that based on the fact that you’re going through some kundalini issues.

I should watch my biased more. 

Oops, sorry I didn't read this post and the Last post was meant for everyone, including those not in this forum.

[Francis777]

11 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve always assumed you’ve taken 5-MeO for some reason. I think I assumed that based on the fact that you’re going through some kundalini issues.

I should watch my biased more. 

ha yeah watch out for that man.

I've taken more different drugs than I can count, just not 5meo. done regular DMT but that was some time ago n it scared the shit out of me

A psychedelic that I do want to talk about that I've done is "ibogaine". Haven't seen it mentioned on here before, ill save it for a separate post though.

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, An young being said:

I think that's the way we are assuming everything!

Precisely. The mind has many tricks up its sleeves. Instead of getting rid of your mind, though, you can use it more wisely. More refined roadblocks can be developed. Not to prevent bad things from entering your mind, but to create space for new and better constructions to be built.

The roadblocks are only setup temporarily.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

A psychedelic that I do want to talk about that I've done is "ibogaine". Haven't seen it mentioned on here before, ill save it for a separate post though.

Have you used the search function? Plenty of users talked about it, including Leo.

[Francis777]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Have you used the search function? Plenty of users talked about it, including Leo.

Ah! ill check it out, still new to the forum so haven't surfed through the archives yet.

[Loveeee]

[Nemra]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

No idea what that means.

Sorry, I hope you didn't think that I was attacking you. But I was a little bit mean.

What I meant was that you don't have to be forgiving to religious institutions for not liking people's behavior here; testing their limits, going extremes, or else, which doesn't have to be what you called "cargo cult". Of course, there are people who do that; they tend to be religious.

I think there are sneaky deceptions being played here. What's interesting is that seeing people here as cultish, religious, or something that is insulting to your intelligence at some point becomes your enemy; you start to use skepticism to feel how clean and objective you are, which to a certain degree is true. You start to become skeptical of your abilities because you know that you can be deceived, forgetting that skepticism might be part of the deception.

And there are other things that can be said, but my head is starting to hurt (I wrote a lot of things but then deleted them; they could be misunderstood). ?

[Inliytened1]

On 10/1/2023 at 4:02 PM, Loveeee said:

If anyone

It's not about disagreeing.  It's about knowing when to just say hey - I'm awake.  The rest is just child's play.  And if you actually awoke, this will be seamless.  When neo woke up from the matrix there wasn't a doubt.   But the problem was, going back into the matrix and convincing everyone else that it was a matrix.  This is no different.   When you wake up from the dream - like actually waking up.  Nothing else matters.   Going back in and talking to the characters within are all products of your own mind.  You have beaten the game.  You can't fool yourself any longer that you haven't.  You only do that temporarily, in spurts.  But you will always return to lucidity . Only a total memory wipe will bring you back to being asleep again. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Understander said:

Sorry, I hope you didn't think that I was attacking you. But I was a little bit mean.

I didn't really think that. I just didn't understand what you said.

 

1 hour ago, Understander said:

What I meant was that you don't have to be forgiving to religious institutions for not liking people's behavior here

No, I'm forgiving of them in general, because I've met a lot of great religious people and read enough about religion to see that the bad rap is hugely undeserved, and that it's actually really hard to make a hard distinction between spirituality and religion if you're intellectually rigorous about it.

 

1 hour ago, Understander said:

testing their limits, going extremes, or else, which doesn't have to be what you called "cargo cult". Of course, there are people who do that; they tend to be religious.

I'm still struggling a bit to understand what you mean.

 

1 hour ago, Understander said:

I think there are sneaky deceptions being played here. What's interesting is that seeing people here as cultish, religious, or something that is insulting to your intelligence at some point becomes your enemy;

Religious people are not insulting to my intelligence. Cargo cult people, maybe a bit more. However, "cargo cult" is not "cultish" in the general sense of the word. I used it to point out the inconsistency between the claimed allegiance to the 5-MeO belief system and the lack of commitment to it.

 

1 hour ago, Understander said:

you start to use skepticism to feel how clean and objective you are, which to a certain degree is true. You start to become skeptical of your abilities because you know that you can be deceived, forgetting that skepticism might be part of the deception.

My stance doesn't really strike me as skepticism. It's much more of a realist position. I'm not saying you should question the 5-MeO belief system. I'm saying you should implement it properly, the real version of it; and that you should do it while being true to yourself, to what you really feel deep down and what makes the most sense to you. Ask yourself: is basing your worldview on 5-MeO really a reflection of how you see the world? And if that's not true, can you identify the resistance to admitting such a thing? Is it based in fear, anxiety, lack, or authenticity, truth and love?

Edited October 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Ajax]

On 10/1/2023 at 3:02 PM, Loveeee said:

If anyone

Unless you are an exact duplicate of a person... you won't have the same agreements.

[Razard86]

On 10/2/2023 at 7:40 PM, Inliytened1 said:

It's not about disagreeing.  It's about knowing when to just say hey - I'm awake.  The rest is just child's play.  And if you actually awoke, this will be seamless.  When neo woke up from the matrix there wasn't a doubt.   But the problem was, going back into the matrix and convincing everyone else that it was a matrix.  This is no different.   When you wake up from the dream - like actually waking up.  Nothing else matters.   Going back in and talking to the characters within are all products of your own mind.  You have beaten the game.  You can't fool yourself any longer that you haven't.  You only do that temporarily, in spurts.  But you will always return to lucidity . Only a total memory wipe will bring you back to being asleep again. 

This. You will know and the irony is you will be like...well it actually makes sense.