Gang wars in central America and the Caribbean

[trenton]

I find this issue eye opening. In America it is very easy for people to sit in the comfort of their homes and call for action against criminals. We do not appreciate how difficult it could be to stand up to criminals or even advocate for justice. The most dangerous gangs can force us into silence should we speak up against crime.

There are several videos on these gang wars. The gangs are scattered all throughout central America and they cause people to flee to the U.S. for fear of their lives.

I remember there was a video on Leo's blog about the Mexican drug cartels. Next time you want to speak up against crime, I want you to be grateful for how easy we have it in the U.S. Raising your voice is a luxury we take for granted while these gangs force people into silence.

Edited October 1, 2023 by trenton
Typo

[BlueOak]

The UN were discussing stepping in here. I think they need a win after the bad press for the inaction recently. Nobody wants a gang leader in control of a country, that never ends well for anyone, especially the neighbors. So here at least I have some faith that eventually, after some unfortunate violence, it will improve.

[Reignforest]

Another key component overlooked on this topic is that gangs fill a role where government or community is lacking. They are more of a symptom and not a disease themselves.  If they had access to critical resources and a government against corruption, gangs would struggle to exist. Most people I know join gangs out of desperation or force.

[trenton]

I forgot to mention something else.

Usually, we are told that poverty causes crime by making people desperate. In cases like these the opposite is true. Crime causes poverty because the gangs are so powerful that they destabilize the entire economy. It is impossible to run a business if you are constantly held at gun point and robbed with no hope of justice. Criminal justice is what makes business possible. In some countries that successfully fight the gangs there is an amazing economic recovery as the country becomes stable enough to have businesses flourish.

[trenton]

18 minutes ago, Reignforest said:

Another key component overlooked on this topic is that gangs fill a role where government or community is lacking. They are more of a symptom and not a disease themselves.  If they had access to critical resources and a government against corruption, gangs would struggle to exist. Most people I know join gangs out of desperation or force.

I want you to appreciate how hard it is to make an anti corruption government in these cases. Politicians are afraid to speak against gangs for fear of being assassinated like the president of Haiti. In some countries the government feels forced to make deals with the gangs in the hopes of minimizing violence. Trying to put anti corruption policies in place has gotten people killed. so far nobody is willing to become the president of Haiti for fear of their lives. The government has been destroyed resulting in anarchy.

Leo mentioned that this is what happens when the government is gone. The people with the most guns install their own pseudo government and enslave the weak.

El Salvador seems to have made the most progress. The mega prisons have helped the economy to recover while finally pushing the murder rates down.

[Reignforest]

I agree with you, it's a downward spiral. I'm not saying it's easy either. But a corrupt institution won't really punish the right people.  And without opportunities to thrive, some people will inevitably choose a gang. 

[PurpleTree]

How do you guys feel about how the issue is tackled in Salvador

on one hand it‘s now much safer, on the other hand also people who were just affiliated with gangs (like gfs) are in prison, they  don‘t get lawyers and not much human rights

[trenton]

El Salvador didn't have much of a choice. The government was previously forced to negotiate with gangs over the threat of terrorism. There are limited human rights for those arrested, but these policies are wildly popular in el Salvador for a reason. The lesser evil is clear considering how many innocent people were killed because of these gangs. Some of the arrested people were likely forced to join gangs, but the government didn't have many options for pursuing justice. The streets are finally safe and other countries are trying to mimic el Salvador.

I think this brutal move was necessary to restore order under a stable government which the gangs threatened to destroy, creating a lawless state. I can see the point that the tattoo suspicion and the gang affiliation are maybe a step too far, but the country is better off now. More innocent people would have been hurt without this move than with this move.

45 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How do you guys feel about how the issue is tackled in Salvador

on one hand it‘s now much safer, on the other hand also people who were just affiliated with gangs (like gfs) are in prison, they  don‘t get lawyers and not much human rights

[Basman]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:20 PM, PurpleTree said:

How do you guys feel about how the issue is tackled in Salvador

on one hand it‘s now much safer, on the other hand also people who were just affiliated with gangs (like gfs) are in prison, they  don‘t get lawyers and not much human rights

Without a stable government, you can't guarantee anyones basic human rights. I agree that it is ugly but from their perspective it might be better to be too hard on the criminals rather than too soft.

In comparison, the Roman Empire would have probably just crucified all of those people if in the same situation. So it could've been worse relatively speaking.