Why don't girls bother with basic human respect?

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Girzo said:

I am not a natural born monogamous person

Can you explain?

 

[Girzo]

@Yimpa I, like most humans I believe, am attracted to many people, even though I choose on purpose to stay in a commited relationship with a single person.

I could imagine myself being a cheater if I hadn’t had the morals I have. Or being in a polyamory situation, if I were living in a society where there already are well-established, widely known rules of behaving in such relationships, you know where it is in the social contract and you don’t have to negotiate everything and figure out solutions to all the problems that arise in polyamorous relationships. So my monogamy is cultural, not biological.

Someone with very strong monogamous tendecies would for example bond with a person and stay with them till their death and even after their death would not look for another partner.  That’s how I see it.

[Karmadhi]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You got too invested and took her too seriously. Instead you should have treated her like you didn't care. And then she would have gone on another date with you, slept with you, and then everything would have flipped around and she would have started to fall in love with you

I know plenty of girls where the guy did show interest and they hit it off well. Are you talking about only hot girl dynamic or all girls? Is this mindset necessary with average looking girls? I know many couples where the girl saw the guy as high value and wanted his attention and everything. I feel like this is necessary only if you are lower value than her naturally and need to compensate by playing these games. If you are as physically attractive as her, got as many friends, more ambitious, make more money, are in better shape and more confident than her,  you think you still need to do all this ?

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you had 3 other girlfriends, you would not have felt disrespected by that girl. Because you would have been too busy to even notice what nonsense she texted you

Dont you find that extremely toxic to need to talk to 10 girls at once and be sociopathically  detached from all of them? I mean if this is what it takes to get girls no wonder modern dating is so fucked up. What about having a life outside the girl so you are not needy instead of needing to talk to 10 girls at once? I know girls that do not sleep with someone before they kinda get together. Does this principle apply to them too? 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Kid A]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You need to learn that girls have no investment in you until after sex. She is not going to care about you until after sex.

The issue is, you are invested in her and she is not invested in you. Girls are not thinking about you, they are lost in their busy little lives, like rats, until after they sleep with you. Then everything flips.

Your only problem is over-investment. Stop expecting respect from women until after sex.

This is so true. I've failed and suffered a lot because I didn't really understand this until very recently. 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Kid A said:

This is so true. I've failed and suffered a lot because I didn't really understand this until very recently.

I know many girls that liked a guy and were invested in him even before sex because they saw him as high value.

The "she does not care about you before sex" only applies if you are lower value than her naturally.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

I know many girls that liked a guy and were invested in him even before sex because they saw him as high value.

The "she does not care about you before sex" only applies if you are lower value than her naturally.

 

It works the other way as well though, as in if she sees you as high value and you don't have sex with her, she can see that as a rejection and withdraw from you. So either way sex removes the doubt 

 

[Karmadhi]

18 minutes ago, Consept said:

It works the other way as well though, as in if she sees you as high value and you don't have sex with her, she can see that as a rejection and withdraw from you. So either way sex removes the doubt 

You do show intent, you ask her out, talk to her, kiss her etc.

The thing is that in liberal countries sex is not a big deal for girls and they have it easily if they are attracted but that is not every girl. Where I live it has people from all over the world and it is crazy how differently sex is perceived by girls based on their upbringing. For some girls hooking up with a guy they like is a no brainer while for others they need many dates, they feel ashamed about it and if you are too pushy for it she will probably stop talking to you. I know girls that did not have sex with their partner until they got together. So it depends a lot.

I notice that Leo and some people here have a big bias towards liberal sexually open girls that sleep easily with guys when that is not all girls. 

I remember John Anthony who is a pro PUA saying that in Ukraine it would take him multiple dates just to get a kiss because girls are so conservative there  meanwhile in USA he got laid on first date usually. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

You do show intent, you ask her out, talk to her, kiss her etc.

The thing is that in liberal countries sex is not a big deal for girls and they have it easily if they are attracted but that is not every girl. Where I live it has people from all over the world and it is crazy how differently sex is perceived by girls based on their upbringing. For some girls hooking up with a guy they like is a no brainer while for others they need many dates, they feel ashamed about it and if you are too pushy for it she will probably stop talking to you. I know girls that did not have sex with their partner until they got together. So it depends a lot.

I notice that Leo and some people here have a big bias towards liberal sexually open girls that sleep easily with guys when that is not all girls. 

I remember John Anthony who is a pro PUA saying that in Ukraine it would take him multiple dates just to get a kiss because girls are so conservative there  meanwhile in USA he got laid on first date usually. 

Yeah you are right, culture and other factors influence what girls see as 'investment' and that varies widely. But i still think the sex thing stands because lets say you go on a few dates a Ukrainian girl and you get a kiss, she still wouldnt be as invested in you as if she had sex with you. Thats not to say she wouldnt be invested at all from the dates or that she wouldnt be more invested than a liberal American girl for example but she would definitely be a lot more invested after sex. 

[Karmadhi]

32 minutes ago, Consept said:

Yeah you are right, culture and other factors influence what girls see as 'investment' and that varies widely. But i still think the sex thing stands because lets say you go on a few dates a Ukrainian girl and you get a kiss, she still wouldnt be as invested in you as if she had sex with you. Thats not to say she wouldnt be invested at all from the dates or that she wouldnt be more invested than a liberal American girl for example but she would definitely be a lot more invested after sex. 

Point is that it is not always possible to sleep with a Ukrainian girl as quickly and easily as with an American girl because they give way more resistance. 

So it is not always doable in every situation. It depends a lot on the girl. Some girls need 4-5 dates to sleep with and nothing you can do to change it.

Even if you manage to coerce her to do it faster she will probably have massive buyer remorse, feel like a total slut and not want to see you after.

Since American and Westernized girls tend not to have such views on sex, they will not take 5 dates and still want to see you after even if you do it on first date.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Mada_]

Dude come on this is pathetic. "who is Jonah??", drop that immediately. She doesn't owe you monogamy, you're not even in a relationship. 

Girls fuck around, that's life. You fuck around, that's life. 

If you don't like the way she acts actually have a discussion about it with her or move on. 

 

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I know plenty of girls where the guy did show interest and they hit it off well.

Showing interest is fine.

Being over-invested is different.

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Are you talking about only hot girl dynamic or all girls?

All girls. But the more options the girl has, the more of an issue it becomes.

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Is this mindset necessary with average looking girls?

You should not be over-investing in any girls on principle.

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I know many couples where the girl saw the guy as high value and wanted his attention and everything.

The key is not to invest more than her. If she invests a lot you can match but don't exceed it.

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I feel like this is necessary only if you are lower value than her naturally and need to compensate by playing these games. If you are as physically attractive as her, got as many friends, more ambitious, make more money, are in better shape and more confident than her,  you think you still need to do all this ?

You need to not over-invest.

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Dont you find that extremely toxic to need to talk to 10 girls at once and be sociopathically  detached from all of them?

That's not what I said.

I usually talk to one girl at a time. And it still applies.

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I mean if this is what it takes to get girls no wonder modern dating is so fucked up. What about having a life outside the girl so you are not needy instead of needing to talk to 10 girls at once?

You can learn to not over-invest even if you are talking to 1 girl.

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I know girls that do not sleep with someone before they kinda get together. Does this principle apply to them too? 

You still want to not exceed her investment.

If a girl senses that she is the prize then she will lose attraction for you. She wants you to be the prize. Let girls chase you. Don't chase them. This is the best strategy. You can still get laid if you fail to follow the best strategy, but you are lowering your odds. There's really no reason not to follow the best strategy other than that you don't know it or don't know how to control yourself.

You will lose lots of girls by failing to stick to the best strategy.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Leo Gura