Is there a chance we have free choice?

[Razard86]

Only God has free will. God gave up its free will to the manifestation of love. So you are the finite expression of love configured a certain way and that is how you act. Every moment you act from either love or fear and that runs your life. 

You have belief systems that are programmed into you and this impacts how you interpret/experience reality.

Your belief systems only change either due to suffering or inspiration.

You have the ability to choose, and exert effort but it is limited by your imagination, which is limited by your current capacity to love, 

So the more loving you are, the more free you are, the less loving you are the more in bondage you are. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is a lot of wild shit that pops into my mind that I choose not to say.

Whether you say it or not ..it's not your choice. 

And there is no" you " to choose. 

Ask @VeganAwake if you don't believe Me

Edited September 30, 2023 by Someone here

[Carl-Richard]

36 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Whether you say it or not ..it's not your choice. 

And there is no" you " to choose. 

Ask @VeganAwake if you don't believe Me

That's a limited perspective. I gave both perspectives earlier.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's a limited perspective. I gave both perspectives earlier.

Well ..what are the choices that we have ?

Either we have free will..Or our choices are deterministic...Or they are random .

If you observe direct experience carefully..you will notice that your thoughts and actions do not come about from a CEO/separate self/controller agent that lives inside your mind . Neither it is deterministic because what exactly would make it deterministic? It's not like there is  a creator god who has written your entire life story down to every single little detail .I guess it's just random .because we can't anticipate the next choice that we are gonna make .

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Well ..what are the choices that we have ?

I think my position is compatiblism: there is a reason why we talk about making choices on an everyday level, and there is a reason why we talk about how in a more ultimate sense we don't have a choice, and both reasons are valid.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Celest]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

There is no cause and effect, only the appearance of it. If cause and effect existed, the same result would always happen. 

Everything is in constant flux, you can't step into the same river twice. 

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard you miss the point that even that I'd happening without a choice from you. 

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Well ..what are the choices that we have ?

Either we have free will..Or our choices are deterministic...Or they are random .

My current – not completely finalized – perspective on this is the following:

1. God has absolute Free Will, because there's nothing outside the Absolute that could limit the Absolute 
2. Our ego is a creation of God that has no inherent free will, but God grants the ego its will in a certain scope out of pure unlimited Love. God wills what the ego wills, because there is no reason not to
3. The more conscious you get the more of Free Will you realize, the more you realize that everything is already exactly chosen how it is by the absolute Free Will
4. The more you're inside the ego (I use this word here to mean ignorance) the more you act out of egoic structures, that repeat themselves automatically and create the same situations over and over again. At the same time those exact situations are exactly what you need to see through those unconscious patterns. God in a way gives you perfect opportunities to awaken more in every single moment
5. God and absolute Free Will always chooses perfect LOVE and GOODNESS, because there is no reason not to

That is assuming that ego and God would be separate entities, which of course is an illusion.

Another perspective would be, that God by its absolute Free Will chooses to have the experience of being limited.

Edited September 30, 2023 by vibv

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard you miss the point that even that I'd happening without a choice from you. 

I'm not missing the point. The point you're making is included in my point.

[UnbornTao]

5 hours ago, vibv said:

My current – not completely finalized – perspective on this is the following:

1. God has absolute Free Will, because there's nothing outside the Absolute that could limit the Absolute 
2. Our ego is a creation of God that has no inherent free will, but God grants the ego its will in a certain scope out of pure unlimited Love. God wills what the ego wills, because there is no reason not to
3. The more conscious you get the more of Free Will you realize, the more you realize that everything is already exactly chosen how it is by the absolute Free Will
4. The more you're inside the ego (I use this word here to mean ignorance) the more you act out of egoic structures, that repeat themselves automatically and create the same situations over and over again. At the same time those exact situations are exactly what you need to see through those unconscious patterns. God in a way gives you perfect opportunities to awaken more in every single moment
5. God and absolute Free Will always chooses perfect LOVE and GOODNESS, because there is no reason not to

That is assuming that ego and God would be separate entities, which of course is an illusion.

Another perspective would be, that God by its absolute Free Will chooses to have the experience of being limited.

This is called making up a cosmology.

Threw that away and start contemplating.

Edited September 30, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is a lot of wild shit that pops into my mind that I choose not to say.

You have a lot better self-control than me, then 

[vibv]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

this is called making up a cosmology.

Threw that away and start contemplating things.

Both things aren’t  necessarily contradicting each other.

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, vibv said:

My current – not completely finalized – perspective on this is the following:

1. God has absolute Free Will, because there's nothing outside the Absolute that could limit the Absolute 
2. Our ego is a creation of God that has no inherent free will, but God grants the ego its will in a certain scope out of pure unlimited Love. God wills what the ego wills, because there is no reason not to
3. The more conscious you get the more of Free Will you realize, the more you realize that everything is already exactly chosen how it is by the absolute Free Will
4. The more you're inside the ego (I use this word here to mean ignorance) the more you act out of egoic structures, that repeat themselves automatically and create the same situations over and over again. At the same time those exact situations are exactly what you need to see through those unconscious patterns. God in a way gives you perfect opportunities to awaken more in every single moment
5. God and absolute Free Will always chooses perfect LOVE and GOODNESS, because there is no reason not to

That is assuming that ego and God would be separate entities, which of course is an illusion.

Another perspective would be, that God by its absolute Free Will chooses to have the experience of being limited.

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm not missing the point. The point you're making is included in my point.

You are saying it as assumption.  That let's assume that we can call our actions that they are "our " actions.  Because at the end of the day we have survival that gots us by the balls..so we are forced to make choices. Etc 

But I'm saying all THAT ⬆️ is out of your choice as well .

So you didn't escape the problem.

Compatibliam is impossible.  If everything is the result of previous events going back to the big bang or whatever the fuck else from all of reality came from ..then the only one who has free will is God (the Godhead not the ego).

Edited September 30, 2023 by Someone here

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

Both things aren’t  necessarily contradicting each other.

One is unnecessary and disempowering to an open investigation, which is what contemplation is about.

Edited September 30, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

@UnbornTao Disbelief empowers contemplation.

@vibv Both things aren’t necessarily contradicting each other.

Meta…

Edited September 30, 2023 by Yimpa

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But I'm saying all THAT ⬆️ is out of your choice as well .

Who is saying? There is no "I".

Edited September 30, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard stop playing peekaboo with me .

I will pull a Leo on you " don't think you have outsmarted me "

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I will pull a Leo on you " don't think you have outsmarted me "

A fate worse than any other, I know from direct experience.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Osaid said:

A fate worse than any other, I know from direct experience.

It actually feels awesome.  Leo Is a genius:

"No one here understands free will better than me .

In fact..no one ever in the entire history understands free will better than me ." 

[vibv]

Enlightenment is child’s play at some point