Why My Hand Cannot Grasp Itself

[AndylizedAAY]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Who says that? Break the bones in your hand and it will grab itself. 

@StarStruck How does that work? Does it mean that there is suffering for something to be grasped or is the analogy breaking down? But Leo said a few times before that this is worth contemplating. Can consciousness come to know itself through painful experiences just like breaking the bones of the hand to grab itself?

Edited September 30, 2023 by AndylizedAAY

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

That’s the part I obviously don’t understand. 

I feel like knowledge and recognition are definitely conceptual and so is understanding. By conceptual, I mean anything the mind is trying to make sense of.

Me thinking about all of this is conceptual. Any insight I get from this form, I also see as conceptual, as it all relates to the mind. I don’t see anything Absolute about understanding but that it is relative to the entity trying to understand.

Understanding I feel like is relative to one’s state of consciousness and depends on mental processes to function. For instance, without attention, awareness, and thoug/ideas/concepts, I don’t see how you could understand something.

In fact, all that we are talking about and an understanding points to some concept that we are grasping and making actual. It’s hard to separate understanding from conceptualization. 

I feel like understanding has a lot to do with language as well. Without conceptualization, there is no understanding other languages, and without understanding other languages, there could be no science, no math, no history, no philosophy, and no awakening?

Knowledge isn't conceptual. You know language....why? They are just noises and symbols. Why is your brain able to decipher those sounds and make sense of that. What gives it the ability to understand the model? That's what he is saying. 

The answer is...self-recognition. Because you cannot be separated you can intuit something because it's you. After you intuit it, then you form a logical model to explain what you have intuited. Do you need conception to know what smell is? NO!!! Do you need conception to know what BITTER IS? NO!! Notice you cannot convey to someone who has not experienced BITTER and something smelly what they are. Because concept is not actually knowledge. To know something is to experience it and you can only experience it because YOU ARE IT!

So being, what you are, comes prior to concept. You create concept to explain being. You need to stop attaching yourself to logic. Logic stops your ability to be creative and to think outside the box. Logic is past information, if you want to be an explorer, a trail blazer you need to develop the ability to drop logical thinking. Seek to transcend logic. 

Try watching this and meditating on it. It might help loosed that rigid mind of yours.

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Knowledge isn't conceptual. You know language....why? They are just noises and symbols. Why is your brain able to decipher those sounds and make sense of that. What gives it the ability to understand the model? That's what he is saying. 

The answer is...self-recognition. Because you cannot be separated you can intuit something because it's you. After you intuit it, then you form a logical model to explain what you have intuited. Do you need conception to know what smell is? NO!!! Do you need conception to know what BITTER IS? NO!! Notice you cannot convey to someone who has not experienced BITTER and something smelly what they are. Because concept is not actually knowledge. To know something is to experience it and you can only experience it because YOU ARE IT!

So being, what you are, comes prior to concept. You create concept to explain being. 

Nice explanation. Made me understand the difference.

[Davino]

19 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

To “recognize”, “know” or “understand” is already to assume duality and imply that you are a separate part of the whole.

You are not understanding how the part and the whole work. All parts are a whole in itself and the whole itself is a part. Your body is a whole but then is a part of earth. The earth is a whole but then is a part of the solar system. Your body is a whole but has parts like orgars. Organs are a whole but have parts, cells.

And so on in all directions. This is holistic thinking. I see a hole in your reasoning here that you will recognize when you are grounded in turquoise. What you think is the whole it's just unreachable, it goes on forever in this way.

The same is happening with understanding. The same oneness in higher and higher orders of complexity. It's a property of holons called self-trascendence that makes them more than the sum of it's parts. Your body-mind is not just a collections of atoms, in the same way, reality and awakening follows this structure of ever greater self organization, understanding and awakening. 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Davino

[Yimpa]

21 hours ago, vibv said:

It's incredibly difficult to talk about stuff like that, because everybody seems to use a term for completely different - sometimes contrary - things.

Terms like realize, recognize, enlightenment, awakening, knowing, etc.

I mean, you’re only scratching the surface here. That’s only the english language. Then there’s even sign language. And emojis. Etc, etc, etc, etc….

[Yimpa]

Hand cannot grasp itself, because its form/shape is always changing. 

Even if you fixate your attention onto one particular form, it’ll also change. Trying to maintain particular forms you hold dearly actually makes you more contracted.

Allow the hand to be any shape with curiosity and reverence. God is calling you. You are calling You. The hand, after all, is you.

[Leo Gura]

21 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

That’s the part I obviously don’t understand. 

I feel like knowledge and recognition are definitely conceptual and so is understanding. By conceptual, I mean anything the mind is trying to make sense of.

Me thinking about all of this is conceptual. Any insight I get from this form, I also see as conceptual, as it all relates to the mind. I don’t see anything Absolute about understanding but that it is relative to the entity trying to understand.

Understanding I feel like is relative to one’s state of consciousness and depends on mental processes to function. For instance, without attention, awareness, and thoug/ideas/concepts, I don’t see how you could understand something.

In fact, all that we are talking about and an understanding points to some concept that we are grasping and making actual. It’s hard to separate understanding from conceptualization. 

I feel like understanding has a lot to do with language as well. Without conceptualization, there is no understanding other languages, and without understanding other languages, there could be no science, no math, no history, no philosophy, and no awakening?

The mistake you're making is that just because you're using concepts or thoughts or language to aid your understanding does not negate or undermine the understand nor it potential absoluteness.

You can use a ladder to climb on a rooftop, and that does not negate the fact that you've got a view now from the roof.

This is a critical mistake that nondualists and Buddhists make. They are not intelligent enough to understand that you can use relative mental constructs to achieve Absolute Understandings.

If you become conscious enough, your mind will itself become Absolute and you will be able to grasp all parts of yourself with perfect clarity.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:19 PM, r0ckyreed said:

My hand cannot grasp itself because it is itself. To grasp is to assume a duality between what is grasped and the thing the grasps. The hand itself cannot grasp itself in the same way that you cannot bite your own teeth.

But here is the interesting paradox. If the hand cannot grasp itself, then how can God create/grasp itself?

It can be itself.   That is awakening. 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The mistake you're making is that just because you're using concepts or thoughts or language to aid your understanding does not negate or undermine the understand nor it potential absoluteness.

You can use a ladder to climb on a rooftop, and that does not negate the fact that you've got a view now from the roof.

This is a critical mistake that nondualists and Buddhists make. They are not intelligent enough to understand that you can use relative mental constructs to achieve Absolute Understandings.

If you become conscious enough, your mind will itself become Absolute and you will be able to grasp all parts of yourself with perfect clarity.

But ultimately Being will always transcend finite thought.   Because to be a thing requires no thought. . 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

But ultimately Being will always transcend finite thought.   Because to be a thing requires no thought. . 

I am pointing to advanced things beyond what you are talking about.

You guys still have not understood that what I am teaching no one here understands. You tell yourselves you understand me, but you don't.

You people are stubborn like mules, no matter how enlightened you tell yourselves you are.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I am pointing to advanced things beyond what you are talking about.

You guys still have not understood that what I am teaching no one here understands. You tell yourselves you understand me, but you don't.

You people are stubborn like mules, no matter how enlightened you tell yourselves you are.

wrong.  simple as that.  There cannot be anything prior to Being.  Being is Infinity.  Yet you still ask for more because you have not truly become Inifnity.  You were enlightened under false pretenses.  The real thing is the real thing - and it will always be something you only know as concept.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Snader]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys still have not understood that what I am teaching no one here understands.

I haven’t been very active on the forum, so I’m not really up to date on today’s discussion here. Therefore I must ask: what do you refer to when you talk about your teachings, especially in the context of no one understanding?

Is it about the stuff you have made videos about and talked about for years already, but that it is misunderstood by everyone on the forum, or is it something new; stuff like alien consciousness that you’ve been touching on a bit on the forum?

If it’s the latter one, then I would question the measure in which you say it is teached, cause I don’t count forum discussions as teaching, especially in subjects like that.

Not to say that you have to teach anything. But I’m eaget to deepen my undestanding and especially understand stuff you talk about. I’ve been waiting for videos or a course from you to give me insight.

Absolutely zero demanding here. I’m already very grateful for everything you’ve done. I only wish to be up to date with where we at, and with what specifically?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Snader

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

wrong.  simple as that.  There cannot be anything prior to Being.  Being is Infinity.  Yet you still ask for more because you have not truly become Inifnity.  You were enlightened under false pretenses.  The real thing is the real thing - and it will always be something you only know as concept.

You enlightened people are so hung up on that. Yes, being is absolute and prior to experience. It's an important part of the process to find that out and become aware of that. But then you go beyond that...

"But how can anything be beyond infinity!?" – That's not what I'm saying! You found out that you're the absolute and now think you're done. But the absolute is NEVER done. That's one of its core features. It's always expanding. If you think you've arrived then that's already a deception.

The Absolute is Absolute and at the same time expanding in all directions into infinity for all of eternity. That's what you don't get.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

wrong.  simple as that.  There cannot be anything prior to Being.  Being is Infinity.  Yet you still ask for more because you have not truly become Inifnity.  You were enlightened under false pretenses.  The real thing is the real thing - and it will always be something you only know as concept.

Let's say that Leo has become infinite and knows what the infinite total absolute is, but it reaches this state with ease and has opened itself to new angles of understanding reality. It is one possibility, the other is that he is deceived.

I do know what it is to break limits and open myself to absolute infinity, and I can affirm without a doubt that there is nothing more than that, it is impossible. but there can be understanding of what reality is from infinity. In fact, it is certain that there is but I cannot grasp it because for me the condition for infinite openness is to renounce understanding. The moment my mind moves, I'm out. It is like a transparent pond. If you move, it gets cloudy. But this does not mean that there is no movement in it, it just means that I cannot capture it due to the fragility of that state.

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, vibv said:

But the absolute is NEVER done. That's one of its core features. It's always expanding

No, if you break the limits and are infinite, there is no more than that, there can be no more, since what you are is a total abyss. What that abyss contains is indifferent, it contains everything, it doesn't matter. The fact is that you are that, you are no longer you, you are a horizon of infinite possibilities, unlimited breadth, you have always been that and you always will be, you are total freedom. There is no more than that, what there is is less, that is, understanding aspects of reality, but they really do not mean anything if you are infinite. You are total, everything is, there is only one understanding here: infinite. anything else is limitation. The need for more things is greed, to truly open yourself to the infinite, you must let your mind drop. If you hold on to your mind you automatically create limits. I give some credibility to what Leo says because maybe he's pointing to the understand of the mechanic of the reality, understanding from the infinity, but maybe it's deception . The problem with Leo is that his explanation here are short and not complete. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

4 minutes ago, vibv said:

 That's not what I'm saying! You found out that you're the absolute and now think you're done. But the absolute is NEVER done. That's one of its core features. It's always expanding.

Exactly. Some people here treat the absolute like something dead lol. Stop trying to trancend the absolute and nonsense like that.

The absolute is more alive than you!

It's ever fresh, ever new. In one way it has an end and that's it, beingness oneness consciousness the absolute, in the other way it's always refreshingly alive and self-transcendent. You need to get both, otherwise you could be more conscious.

[vibv]

@Inliytened1 @Breakingthewall What you are is like the deepest darkest black hole that contains all of infinity. It's prior to experience, what you are can NEVER be experienced directly, it's absolutely impossible.

This black hole is so black and so much nothing, that it bubbles up everything else, like a never-ending infinite eternal fountain. Through that it begins experiencing and understanding itself. That's what this here is. Everything you experience, even the most absolute feeling experience of Infinity, is but a bubble.

Those bubbles are not irrelevant though! And THAT is your greatest mistake. These experiences that bubble up (it's a metaphor, okay) are what the actual Absolute uses to get to know itself, because there's no other way. But it is NEVER finished with that.

What's there to do? Producing better, bigger and deeper bubbles through which the Infinite expands its understanding of itself. This process is eternal. We are active parts of it and we're not even close to being finished even on this planet. There's SO much to explore.

As soon as you say say there's no more to see or to understand, you deluded yourself. That's not what the Absolute is about. We need to explore deeper, more amazing insights, understandings that no one ever had before, that's what's possible and that's why we're here.

If you stop you just convinced yourself that you've finally arrived at a destination that just doesn't exist, you made that up. You've misinterpreted some deeper awakening - that on its own may be completely valid! - to be the final one. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

Those bubbles are not irrelevant though! And THAT is your greatest mistake

They are not irrelevant, are relative. The absolute by definition is immutable, because it's absolute. Immutable because has no limit, so any mutation is already in it. You can't add or subtract nothing, then, when you move to the absolute plane, the relative becomes completely irrelevant. In fact the closest description would be that your experience becomes transparent, like a hologram. It doesn't matter this experience or another, being a slave, a stone or a rat, you are on another level, you are total.

That's it, there is no more, you cannot rise above the unlimited because it is absolute, and you are. You can go down a level, and understand aspects of the experience, but the absolute is not experience, it is not happening, it just is. You have to let go of everything to get here, if you try to hold on to something, you're out, in the relative

[vibv]

36 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You have to let go of everything to get here, if you try to hold on to something, you're out, in the relative

That's still relative/duality. The actual Absolute can't be experienced directly.

You're at the stage where you fall in and out of awareness. I was there, too, so I know what you're talking about. That's nothing final.

Edit: What you're experiencing in those moments is valid! Don't get me wrong here. But you'll never be able to sustain it. What has a beginning always has an end.

You've now just created a duality between seeing it / not seeing it.

Edited October 1, 2023 by vibv

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Snader said:

I haven’t been very active on the forum, so I’m not really up to date on today’s discussion here. Therefore I must ask: what do you refer to when you talk about your teachings, especially in the context of no one understanding?

Is it about the stuff you have made videos about and talked about for years already, but that it is misunderstood by everyone on the forum, or is it something new; stuff like alien consciousness that you’ve been touching on a bit on the forum?

Some of it is stuff I've talked about in the videos but which hasn't been grasped at enough depth.

But also I am sharing new insights here on the forum. You are right that I have not explained it in depth yet. I use this forum to throw out brand new insights before I fully develop them, since that takes time.

So you have a point.

But also, I was speaking to a growing attitude I see on this forum of people acting like they have figured out all of Consciousness and have nothing more to learn. The ones who consider themselves enlightened are especially guilty of this. This is a deep self-deception. Which I have warned about for a long time. No one here has mastered Consciousness. Not even close. Consciousness has many tricks up its sleeve in store for you. I am dropping hints about what some of them are.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura