Why My Hand Cannot Grasp Itself

[r0ckyreed]

My hand cannot grasp itself because it is itself. To grasp is to assume a duality between what is grasped and the thing the grasps. The hand itself cannot grasp itself in the same way that you cannot bite your own teeth.

But here is the interesting paradox. If the hand cannot grasp itself, then how can God create/grasp itself? Can a hand create itself into existence if it cannot be grasped? If that is the case, then God cannot grasp its own self.

This is what I argue that Enlightenment/Awakening is imaginary. It is impossible to awaken to God or realize God because God cannot grasp itself because it is itself. It is Infinity! Being is prior to knowing. The hand exists prior to being grasped.  

These are my initial thoughts, but I will contemplate this deeper.

Edited September 29, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[vibv]

Yup and as soon as you recognized that you're the hand you can finally start to use it to its full potential and climb some mountains 

[Leo Gura]

Just now, vibv said:

climb some mountains 

Is that what you kids call jerking off these days?

[vibv]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Is that what you kids call jerking off these days?

That's what God does 

[Osaid]

Maybe knowing is not fundamental at all. Maybe "knowing" as you call it is actually just a finite part of something.

What is it that you are trying to know? What does it mean to know what God is? Just something to contemplate! 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Osaid

[Princess Arabia]

I already figured this out a long time ago. I was just waiting on someone to debunk this, and still hasn't to this day. These same insights you've had here seems so obvious to me that I felt kind of silly even bringing it up and just knew someone would explain away how this is not the way consciousness works or something like that. 

Can't wait to hear the explanations for this one. No one brought this up before so I kept it to myself thinking I was missing something. This is the most logical explanation to me how no one can ever know everything.

Edit: It's not about Realizing you're God but God knowing everything about itself. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[StarStruck]

Who says that? Break the bones in your hand and it will grab itself. 

[vibv]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I already figured this out a long time ago. I was just waiting on someone to debunk this, and still hasn't to this day. These same insights you've had here seems so obvious to me that I felt kind of silly even bringing it up and just knew someone would explain away how this is not the way consciousness works or something like that. 

Can't wait to hear the explanations for this one. No one brought this up before so I kept it to myself thinking I was missing something. This is the most logical explanation to me how no one can ever know everything.

You can recognize that what you are is unknowable and prior to experience. That's it.

You can also experience everything you're capable of – which would be using the hand to its full potential. But it has no end.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

You can recognize that what you are is unknowable and prior to experience. That's it.

You can also experience everything you're capable of – which would be using the hand to its full potential. But it has no end.

I edited my original post after realizing that he meant God cannot recognize itself, which I think is false.

[vibv]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I edited my original post after realizing that he meant God cannot recognize itself, which I think is false.

It's incredibly difficult to talk about stuff like that, because everybody seems to use a term for completely different - sometimes contrary - things.

Terms like realize, recognize, enlightenment, awakening, knowing, etc.

God can recognize itself for what he is (call it knowing), but experientally grasping itself is an infinite process (call it understanding)

For God to recognize itself he has to literally do absolute nothing - not even trying to do nothing - because he already IS itself. Trying to get there is what doesn't let you see it, but even then he IS what he is

Experientally understanding God is why we're here

Edited September 29, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

Maybe you can understand a lot but I do not understand anything about the absolute, I only try to understand my relative mind to free myself from it and open myself to the reality that I am. It is an act that for me requires letting go of the mind that understands. nothing structured can be articulated, the dimension is another. understanding is equivalent to being. Another thing is greed, a cage that traps you . The one who wants to understand must dissapear to be open to myself

[Razard86]

I bite my teeth all the time, its called smiling!

[Jannes]

Thanks Leo, please make more questions like these if you have them. They are really fun and support self thinking. 

Okay so I can't grasp my hand because it's an always changing thing in time. When I slowly move my hand forward, the hand a moment prior to that would grasp the hand right now but that's not THE HAND RIGHT NOW because it's a different hand because it changed. 

When we speak of something grasping something else we speak of two objects. The hand can't grasp itself because for that there would need to be an object that grasps and an object that is getting grasped. An object can't be itself and its opposite at the same time and still manifest. Existence means duality, when opposites collapse they delete each other. 

Then because it's a finite object. If the object of the hand were instead two hands on top of each other the question would be why can't the two hands on top of each other not grasp themselves. So no amount of size increase would solve that unless it would be infinite. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jannes

[r0ckyreed]

This is how I see it right now (correct me if I am wrong or kindly point out my errors in contemplation).

To “recognize”, “know” or “understand” is already to assume duality and imply that you are a separate part of the whole.

God is the hand. The hand cannot grasp itself, so it creates/imagines a duality between the knower and thing to be known. 

Recognition, knowing, and understanding are conceptual faculties of the human/animal experiences but not the Absolute. When you are one with the Absolute, all recognition, knowing, and understanding cease to exist because those were all parts of the experience/dualities imagined. The Absolute is complete and has no need for understanding, knowledge, and recognition because it is itself. Knowledge is a conceptual, relative process. Absolute is already Being. That is why you could say Being is Omniscient is because All-Knowing is Not-Knowing!

I think there is a reason why it is easier to “know” “others” but not “yourself.”

Edited September 29, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

I think to make my point clearer: Knowledge, recognition, and understanding seem to be relative. I know Leo has claimed that understanding is Absolute. But I feel that understanding will always be relative to some vantage point - the thing to be understood. Since the Absolute is pure being, it is beyond understanding, knowledge, and recognition because those are relative human/animal processes.

The Universe already is intelligent and functions without “knowing” itself. I think the Universe can only “know” itself through us. That is because knowing is dualistic. 

The same is with meditation. Meditation cannot exist without relativity and duality. There has to be a subject who meditates who then realizes that duality is imagined. For instance, I wouldn’t say that a rock meditates or that space meditates, or that the Universe meditates. No, only living beings capable of focusing their attention can meditate. Meditation is a relative activity in the same way that knowledge/understanding/recognition is. 

Thoughts?

Edited September 29, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

This is how I see it right now (correct me if I am wrong or kindly point out my errors in contemplation).

To “recognize”, “know” or “understand” is already to assume duality and imply that you are a separate part of the whole.

God is the hand. The hand cannot grasp itself, so it creates/imagines a duality between the knower and thing to be known. 

Recognition, knowing, and understanding are conceptual faculties of the human/animal experiences but not the Absolute. When you are one with the Absolute, all recognition, knowing, and understanding cease to exist because those were all parts of the experience/dualities imagined. The Absolute is complete and has no need for understanding, knowledge, and recognition because it is itself. Knowledge is a conceptual, relative process. Absolute is already Being. That is why you could say Being is Omniscient is because All-Knowing is Not-Knowing!

I think there is a reason why it is easier to “know” “others” but not “yourself.”

For me you are right. if you want to open yourself to the absolute, you must leave understanding behind. The mind that wants to understand is the obstacle, the door. You can't open the door with the door, you have to remove it. Open yourself now to the reality that you are. open your heart, leave greed and merge with yourself, be in all your wonderful breadth without limit, in the total diaphanousness of infinity. Let yourself fall into the void, now. It is not understanding, it is action. action of opening . then your smile is total, without a slightest stain of doubt: this is it.  the total amplitude. Hallelujah.

[Leo Gura]

Understanding is beyond conceptual.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, vibv said:

That's what God does 

Finally a God I can get on board with.

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Osaid]

30 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Recognition, knowing, and understanding are conceptual faculties of the human/animal experiences but not the Absolute. When you are one with the Absolute, all recognition, knowing, and understanding cease to exist because those were all parts of the experience/dualities imagined. The Absolute is complete and has no need for understanding, knowledge, and recognition because it is itself. Knowledge is a conceptual, relative process. Absolute is already Being. That is why you could say Being is Omniscient is because All-Knowing is Not-Knowing!

I think there is a reason why it is easier to “know” “others” but not “yourself.”

?

In most people there is lots of "interpretation" which seems to happen in experience. A feeling of something "beyond." But experience cannot interpret itself. It can only create beliefs and ideas. Beliefs and ideas are a fact. Questions are a fact. Questions can occur like "What is God? What is reality? What am I?", but notice that whether you ask these questions or not, you are always 100% what you are. You are always 100% what is the case, no matter if these questions are generated or not generated. And these questions and interpretations are not what you are experiencing, ever.

Whether you believe you are God or a human, your experience of being God/human does not change at all. What changes is the biological sensory perception of thoughts/beliefs, which happen INSIDE of God/human/reality/you. The truth of what you are is never affected, but the sensory perception of belief is affected. And the sensory perception of belief cannot be interpreted beyond itself, it is always just a belief. In the same way that you cannot interpret the color red beyond itself, it is always just the color red. A belief is a belief. Human experience is human experience. Human experience contains beliefs/knowledge inside it.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Understanding is beyond conceptual.

Yes, I believe that could be, but if you become unlimited, what else can you understand? For me it is like reality becomes a hologram, everything is transparent, and what I am is infinity. It is a feeling of total openness, of perfection. But the moment I try to grasp something, to understand in any way, the limits return.