Traditional diets

[Reignforest]

Dr. Sally Fallon Morel is an author who writes a series a books focusing on traditional diets throughout history. Her main focus is on indigenous populations prior to colonization.  Her research has discovered that indigenous people throughout the world,  regardless of the continent, had an average life expectancy of over 100 years. And they didn't need dentist's either. This is contradictory to what we've been taught in school, but she says that there life expectancy dropped only after years of colonization,  slavery, war, genocide,  disease, eco terrorism, etc. So after living in a refugee state it dropped significantly to about 60, where it remains to this day. There are still places called blue zones which practice a traditional lifestyle and can expect to live that long. However as soon as the standard American diet is introduced it gets cut in half. The key is to focus on what's in season in your climate.  She also recommends eating fermented foods and organ meats, while avoiding processed foods and sugar. She also explains how corporate lobbying has replaced healthy foods like butter with margarine, among others. It is also important to understand the natives had a much greater biodiversity of wildfire to choose from. They could literally eat something different everyday. It  wasn't until very recently that the industrialized world even understood the concept of a permaculture food forest as an alternative to agriculture. So the original settlers couldn't even fathom that the entire continent was managed as a food forest. They assumed it was just a natural abundance. However after displacing the natives the forest would become over grown and susceptible to disease and wildfires.  That in tandem with massive logging has all but eliminated the original food forests. Another key component is to respect your elders, which allowed the elderly to live happily that long. But without a community they will simply die for lack of purpose.

[toasty7718]

I agree with the fact that the Standard American Diet is problematic because our biology isn't designed to digest ultra-processed foods.  

I also agree with the fact that community - more specifically, connection - is also an inherent part of our biology.

But determining the health value of food based on the fact that indigenous peoples consume them and have a seemingly longer life-expectancy doesn't hold much relevancy when determining the long-term impacts the food has.

We have much more robust evidence stating the contrary in large groups of people studied in our modern world and with heterogeneity taken into account. Virtually every single dietary guidelines report across the world agrees that butter and margarine increase your risk for CVD.

How do you account for the fact that indigenous populations have an infant mortality rate of ~50%? I can almost all but guarantee you that if you took a small sample of our population and killed the weakest half and only selected for the strongest and most fit then you would see similar results. Especially when you add other causational factors - like the fact that their gut microbiome more diverse than our's, they consume more than 100 grams of fiber per day, and they get 8+ hours of physical activity every day.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by toasty7718

[Reignforest]

I'm only scratching the surface of her content. She has written about a dozen books. She also writes about modern groups, living in blue zones. All of which have traditional diets and lifestyles. Which will change according to where you live. When it comes to meat, most Americans primarily eat beef, chicken and pork.  Occasionally sheep, fish, and turkey. However indigenous would consume all that and more. Such as bison, elk, deer, moose, grouse, porcupine,  rabbit, squirrel, etc. Also they would consume nearly the entire animal,  including bone marow and organs. Not just select cuts. They also ate plants, berries, nuts, mushrooms etc. She mentions how they would ferment corn bc they knew it could be toxic by itself. She mentions synergy of eating certain foods together.  She compares healthy fat to unnatural fats. As far as butter is concerned it's superior to margarine in every way. That doesn't mean eat sticks of butter.

Also when it comes to child mortality,  that only applies to indigenous that have been displaced from their ancestral territory by imperial forces.  However this goes back to blue zones. Where the individuals have modern amenities like smart phones  etc, but still eat traditionally. 

To elaborate from other sources.  Gabor mate mentions in his book how natives don't believe in getting weak and frail as you get older. They would remain functional and happy until death.  

The hunza tribe is another example of long lifespan. Not only that but they can give birth at 65 without complications and they expect to remain functional into their 90's + to raise then into adulthood. 

This doesn't mean go live the the mountains and try to survive through fasting and apricot juice. But take what applies to you and your environment, and use it to transition away from the s.a.d diet.

[Schizophonia]

It's still too dogmatic for me, the WAPF guys like to promote crap like legumes, certain vegetable oils, certain super fibrous vegetables, milk which would suddenly be magical because it's raw...
I listen to my instinct.

[Reignforest]

Raw milk has beneficial bacteria, more vitamins and intact enzymes.  Any food can become contaminated with a food borne illness. But pasteurized guarantees you get less from it. We are not machines that consume single ingredients like gasoline.  Our digestive system is microbiology at its core. It requires diversity and wholistic foods to maintain a healthy microbiome.

Also legumes and vegetable oils are fine in moderation. However it is best to consume them mixed with other foods that have a synergistic effect. 

[Leo Gura]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:22 AM, Reignforest said:

Her research has discovered that indigenous people throughout the world,  regardless of the continent, had an average life expectancy of over 100 years.

Do not spread misinformation on this forum. This is the second time today I see you doing it.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Reignforest]

@Leo Gura I am not trying to spread information but lesser known research.  I truly believe that a majority of information obtained about indigenous people,  especially in America,  was only obtained after years of being in a refugee status.  Which would reflect a shorter lifespan we are all familiar with. Also if this was common knowledge we would have questioned the sad diet much sooner. I can put a disclaimer of imo, if it helps 

[Leo Gura]

@Reignforest If ancient humans lived to 100 I think that evidence would be quite obvious.

It's very hard to live to 100 when you live in the wild without modern medicine.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Reignforest]

@Leo Gura Most of our modern medicine comes from their knowledge of plants and fungi. They just consumed more wholistic versions of it. They also considered wild wilderness as dirty. It wasn't until modern times that we eventually realized they practiced wide scale permaculture forests. Also we have to considered if the authors of history might have been unaware, or had a vested interest not to share the truth.

[Reignforest]

Also I'm trying to figure out how you guys put the quotes at the bottom so I can put a disclaimer that my opinions do not reflect those of actualized. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Reignforest said:

Most of our modern medicine comes from their knowledge of plants and fungi.

No.

Look, dude, you've been consuming too much New Age theory.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Reignforest]

Alright man, I'm not trying to upset anyone or steer anyone down the wrong path. I  just thought this was a good place to share ideas with open minded individuals. My quest is for the truth. But I'm sure I have biases and self deception to overcome 

[Leo Gura]

@Reignforest Okay