I honestly cannot wrap my head around why this universe exists

[Shodburrito]

Let's do a thought experiment. Say I am God. I have infinite wisdom and understanding. I have also unlimited creative potential. I would and could instantly know anything that I wished to. With this infinitely wise understanding would I not create the best thing for me? Now what is the best thing for god? As having limited intelligence and understanding I don't know. But living my life I can tell you that there are definitely experiences that are better than other experiences. If I had the ability to create whatever I wanted, I certainly wouldn't create this life or in general a life where I got sick or could have debilitating injuries. Would I create a hedonistic life full of pleasure? Maybe, maybe not. But I definitely would allow myself the freedom to explore all opportunities that I would deem as fun, interesting, or new, and wouldn't create a life where I am forced to work most of my life away. 

 

Now let's consider the average human life. It's full of misery, hardships, long working hours, physical suffering, as well as mental. Yes, there are some beautiful things and great experiences but considering how much better things could be... this life isn't really that great. Why on earth as God would I create a reality and incarnate in it living this life when I could literally create infinite pleasure, love, and happiness for myself forever? And don't say it's because "you would get bored" because as God I could just transcend that limitation, because after all I am all-powerful. I'm sure love, pleasure, and happiness isn't even the best thing an infinitely wise being could create, but it's certainly a step in the right direction compared to physical suffering. Also don't say that physical suffering can make life more interesting because I'll tell you getting sick even with a minor cold for a week sucks and I find absolutely no value in it for any reason imaginable, considering how much better things could be. 

 

Now I've seen Leo's videos about god-realization and have also read into many spiritual ideas about enlightenment about all this, but I am starting to seriously doubt the idea that I am God. I can't reconcile the fact that this life can be very painful at times and sometimes can be generally crappy for many years, when if I am God why would I ever force myself to experience this? I mean I could think of hundreds of simple ways that this life could be so much better not even mentioning creating infinite pleasure forever. But no, we are all stuck in this generally shitty life, and I am not even from a third-world country, so it probably is so much worse for billions of others. 

[Leo Gura]

@Shodburrito The problem in your logic is that you're not conscious enough to know what the highest Good is.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Shodburrito]

@Leo Gura Do you mean love? How would you also know what the highest good is considering you don't have access to unlimited intelligence?

I'm very open-minded and trying to understand this. 

If you mean love then I can understand where you are coming from but hear me out. From an infinite intelligence perspective, I understand why God would have no biases for one thing or another because it is everything. So if one would go by that logic, by saying that is why God created everything because it loves everything and has no biases towards what exists and what it is, then I can understand, BUT I am not experiencing infinite consciousness. I am experiencing a very limited slice of what one could possibly experience. I am hardwired to experience certain things with a negative bias towards them such as physical pain. If I put my hand on a hot stove accidentally, no matter how much meditation on love and acceptance I have done I WILL automatically, without thinking about it pull my hand away from that burner. I can't help myself, there are too many things biologically and psychologically that cause me suffering that I really have no control over no matter how much I wish I could just love them. Even if I let go of my bias toward survival and maintaining a finite identity, if someone starts torturing me I am going to naturally scream and writhe in pain, and try to stop that pain from occurring. 

Now here is my point. If one is infinitely conscious, love and having no biases is great. But as soon as God gives up his sovereignty to be in a limited form like my body, unconditional love, and unbiasedness go out the window. I am PROGRAMMED to seek out and be biased toward pleasurable experiences and against pain. How is it practical at all to be unbiased and try to love unconditionally when there are experiences I am driven to seek out and avoid with virtually no control over? And on top of that even if God creates everything, why not stay infinitely conscious? Why would he incarnate in a limited form like me? 

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@Leo Gura Do you mean love?

I mean THIS.

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How would you also know what the highest good is considering you don't have access to unlimited intelligence?

I have access to unlimited intelligence.

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I'm very open-minded and trying to understand this. 

Unfortunately this requires some very deep Awakening.

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I am PROGRAMMED to seek out and be biased toward pleasurable experiences and against pain. How is it practical at all to be unbiased and try to love unconditionally when there are experiences I am driven to seek out and avoid with virtually no control over?

That's what keeps you alive. You are not supposed to be unbiased as a human.

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And on top of that even if God creates everything, why not stay infinitely conscious? Why would he incarnate in a limited form like me? 

God is an Infinite Dream. It cannot change itself.

God is too profound to explain itself to you.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Shodburrito]

@Leo Gura If this is the Truth, what is the value in it for me, or for most other humans? Think about it. I could be living in a reality where I could be doomed to live in eternal suffering for eternity. If everything exists, a reality where when I die I am tortured by a malevolent deity (not infinite God), forever exists. There also could be one in which the opposite is true, and obviously there is an infinite number of possibilities. Heck, there is a reality where I never die. How are spirituality and love going to help me if I could be living in a reality, that God created, where I may go life after life suffering and the only way is to have biases forever? When I die I may not experience infinite love. I may go to Valhalla for all I know lol. This legitimately could be the universe I find myself in and I am not able to escape it. Why even care about ultimate truth, love, or conscious evolution when I may be doomed to an existence forever that contains suffering? After all, if God is everything, this reality is just one of many that God is, and he can't change that... 

[Leo Gura]

@Shodburrito You are looking at all this very selfishly. Your human concerns are irrelevant to God.

God is an Infinite Consciousness. It's only concern is to dream, not your petty personal problems.

God is busy figuring out how to dreaming the Holocaust and you are sitting here whining.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

14 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@Leo Gura If this is the Truth, what is the value in it for me, or for most other humans? Think about it. I could be living in a reality where I could be doomed to live in eternal suffering for eternity. If everything exists, a reality where when I die I am tortured by a malevolent deity (not infinite God), forever exists. There also could be one in which the opposite is true, and obviously there is an infinite number of possibilities. Heck, there is a reality where I never die. How are spirituality and love going to help me if I could be living in a reality, that God created, where I may go life after life suffering and the only way is to have biases forever? When I die I may not experience infinite love. I may go to Valhalla for all I know lol. This legitimately could be the universe I find myself in and I am not able to escape it. Why even care about ultimate truth, love, or conscious evolution when I may be doomed to an existence forever that contains suffering? After all, if God is everything, this reality is just one of many that God is, and he can't change that... 

Start to look at your life as if it's not your own. As the observer. The one who is untouched by all this. That is literally your true nature. You are not this "human being" you have imagined yourself to be. Be detached. No judgements. Let the sensations come and go without interpretation. Just see them for what they are. You are the space from which all these appearances arise. The dream seems real but it's not. 

[Shodburrito]

@Leo Gura Of course I’m selfish I’m literally designed and constrained by my environment and biology to be so! If I’m not to some degree I’m going to suffer? I’m sorry I don’t like to suffer? It’s impossible for me not to dislike it. I’m just making the point that the truth really makes no difference to my life. Yea it might be cool to understand it, but at the end of the day it’s not going to drastically change how I live my life. Sure I can be more compassionate, and open to helping others, but Understanding these concepts don’t stop me from getting sick, or having to pay my bills so I don’t go homeless or starve, getting bored, suffering mentally, or a plethora of things that suck. That’s great and all that god creates everything out of love. But if I am stuck in a universe where I am doomed forever to exist as being with limitations and the ability to suffer, the truth of god isn’t really going to change anything. I’m sorry that offends you but you aren’t immune to this either. You’re here stuck like the rest of us, and who knows maybe you’ll end up in a shitty existence for eternity. You don’t know and can’t. If you say you do you’re just assuming. I’m not whining either I’m just challenging the practicality of teaching truth. I’m actually a fairly happy person who went through a very traumatic childhood full of abuse. I had to work through that for years to get where I’m at. But even though I generally enjoy my life I can still point out that this still is nowhere near as good as it could be, and I am designed to want certain things and not others. Understanding truth isn’t drastically going to change anyones lifestyles because at the end of the day we are still capable of suffering and we will avoid it.

[Shodburrito]

@Princess Arabia That sounds great and all but as soon as you start suffering or have physical pain spirituality goes out the window. Spirituality is so easy when you don’t have to worry about where your next meal is coming from. When you get sick next time with a severe case of strep throat I’m sure you’re going to be begging your doctor for medicine to relieve your symptoms. “The dream seems real but it’s not” Tell that to the any person with chronic pain. This is tone-deaf 

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@Leo Gura Of course I’m selfish I’m literally designed and constrained by my environment and biology to be so! If I’m not to some degree I’m going to suffer? I’m sorry I don’t like to suffer? It’s impossible for me not to dislike it. I’m just making the point that the truth really makes no difference to my life. Yea it might be cool to understand it, but at the end of the day it’s not going to drastically change how I live my life. Sure I can be more compassionate, and open to helping others, but Understanding these concepts don’t stop me from getting sick, or having to pay my bills so I don’t go homeless or starve, getting bored, suffering mentally, or a plethora of things that suck. That’s great and all that god creates everything out of love. But if I am stuck in a universe where I am doomed forever to exist as being with limitations and the ability to suffer, the truth of god isn’t really going to change anything. I’m sorry that offends you but you aren’t immune to this either. You’re here stuck like the rest of us, and who knows maybe you’ll end up in a shitty existence for eternity. You don’t know and can’t. If you say you do you’re just assuming. I’m not whining either I’m just challenging the practicality of teaching truth. I’m actually a fairly happy person who went through a very traumatic childhood full of abuse. I had to work through that for years to get where I’m at. But even though I generally enjoy my life I can still point out that this still is nowhere near as good as it could be, and I am designed to want certain things and not others. Understanding truth isn’t drastically going to change anyones lifestyles because at the end of the day we are still capable of suffering and we will avoid it.

Maybe you designed it this way to teach yourself some lessons that you didn't learn in your last incarnation. Earth is a hard knock school, and is the most dense of the dimensions of Reality. The higher you go in dimensions, the easier it gets. 

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

You’re here stuck like the rest of us, and who knows maybe you’ll end up in a shitty existence for eternity. You

Nonsense. I’m not going to play your petty games.

[Shodburrito]

@Princess Arabia That’s literally pointless because if I knew the lesson I wanted to teach myself then that means I already knew the the lesson and I wouldn’t need to teach myself it? That would mean I would have to forget the lesson to learn it, but why do that in the first place when I already knew it??

[Shodburrito]

@Yimpa I’m not being petty. I’m pointing out a legitimate possibility. How would you know that this isn’t true? You don’t and you would be lying if you said you did. This is just a thought experiment pointing out the fact that I don’t see any real practical value in understanding the truth about God. 

[Leo Gura]

@Shodburrito No one is forcing you to pursue God. If you don't care about God, then go live your human life. You will suffer regardless.

The issue of God is the most radical thing there is. It is not suitable for most people.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

@Shodburrito it’s literally so genius that you can’t grasp it yet. And that makes it even better, it’s not a bug it’s a feature.

You‘ll see. Nothing anybody can tell you will convince you right now. But know that it’s all perfectly and specifically created the way it is.

You can’t experience eternal unchanging pleasure, that’s not how EXPERIENCE works. Experience needs movement.

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@Princess Arabia That sounds great and all but as soon as you start suffering or have physical pain spirituality goes out the window. Spirituality is so easy when you don’t have to worry about where your next meal is coming from. When you get sick next time with a severe case of strep throat I’m sure you’re going to be begging your doctor for medicine to relieve your symptoms. “The dream seems real but it’s not” Tell that to the any person with chronic pain. This is tone-deaf 

I'm not saying it doesn't feel real, and it is real within the shared dream, but saying Spirituality flies out the window if I get sick doesn't compute for me because I'm aware that illness is part of life, it's how you view it that makes the difference. I have cured myself of symptoms before just by seeing myself as pure health rather than someone who is sick. Physical pain will arise and you deal with it accordingly, but why curse existence because of it. To me, I don't view Spirituality as easy or hard, it's who I have become and have accepted it as a way of being. Not in some woo woo all is great kind of being but kind of nothing else matters kind of way. I will engage in other things, but I don't view them as important anymore and I'm aware that my suffering is not going to last forever, and if they are of the mind and is not in my direct experience I can quickly snap out of it and bring myself back to the present moment.

[Shodburrito]

@Leo Gura Thankyou. Im not trying to offend anyone here. I’m just pointing out something that I’ve been thinking about recently. I don’t know why that seems such a problem. I just providing another perspective 

[Leo Gura]

@Shodburrito No problem.

[puporing]

Coz, there's more understanding to be had .

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@Princess Arabia That’s literally pointless because if I knew the lesson I wanted to teach myself then that means I already knew the the lesson and I wouldn’t need to teach myself it? That would mean I would have to forget the lesson to learn it, but why do that in the first place when I already knew it??

I really don't know if this is so, but it's not a case of what makes sense or not. This Universe is illogical and Infinite and God could just be playing a game with itself. Some of these things I don't know for sure, but I try not to close my mind to these possibilities. I have seen and heard stories as to why this happens and it has to do with past life regressions and hypnotherapy, but I try not to get involved with those things because life is unfolding how it wants to unfold, and since I have a limited time here and limited resources, I try to dedicate my learnings to what I find more relevant to my current existence.