People who deny the Bible either did not read or understand it or both

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You're  a human Razard. 

Im a what?

A human...

I'm consciousness appearing as a human. That is the truth. If you weren't conscious, you literally couldn't be human. Consciousness has to exist, for a human to exist. Before you were conscious, you didn't exist. Think about that.

Edited April 15 by Razard86

[Dodo]

Just now, Razard86 said:

I'm consciousness appearing as a human. That is the truth. 

Or... is that more comfortable to the human to believe....

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Or... is that more comfortable to the human to believe....

And this is why you are dishonest. I've said it before. It's called the truth for a reason. If you lost consciousness, and never regained it...you would cease to be human. Consciousness is prior to human. You cannot even form an individual identity until after many years as it takes years for an ego to develop. 

https://www.babycenter.com/baby/baby-development/developmental-milestone-separation-and-independence_6577

The research is well known, a baby constructs an individual identity over years. So yeah, like I said if you want the truth you will find it. If not, you'll play DISHONEST mind games like you.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

And this is why you are dishonest. I've said it before. It's called the truth for a reason. If you lost consciousness, and never regained it...you would cease to be human. Consciousness is prior to human. You cannot even form an individual identity until after many years as it takes years for an ego to develop. 

https://www.babycenter.com/baby/baby-development/developmental-milestone-separation-and-independence_6577

The research is well known, a baby constructs an individual identity over years. So yeah, like I said if you want the truth you will find it. If not, you'll play DISHONEST mind games like you.

You are so full of content and projections, where is the space of consciousness you speak of? You are using highest truth as some form of tool in the relative to win arguments. 

You are giving poisoned milk, truth warped through the corrupted shell it shines through. Thats what I get when I read your comments, usually. 

To be consciousness appearing as human gives a nice layer of safety and comfort to the human, even if tough situations. You have a problem that another has found comfort a different way, and judge them, when you are doing the same thing. 

Who told you you know everything, just because you realised the consciousness you always are and have been? You are still the Razard that was born in I presume year 1986.

If you were me, born where and when I was born, you would be saying exactly what I am saying, I would assume. 

You are not only the light that shines through, you are also the lightbulb. Dont be such an aggressive lightbulb in arguments, because that same light that allows you to express yourself, allows all of us, including those you deem dishonest and unenlightened.

 

 

[Razard86]

7 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You are so full of content and projections, where is the space of consciousness you speak of? You are using highest truth as some form of tool in the relative to win arguments. 

You are giving poisoned milk, truth warped through the corrupted shell it shines through. Thats what I get when I read your comments, usually. 

To be consciousness appearing as human gives a nice layer of safety and comfort to the human, even if tough situations. You have a problem that another has found comfort a different way, and judge them, when you are doing the same thing. 

Who told you you know everything, just because you realised the consciousness you always are and have been? You are still the Razard that was born in I presume year 1986.

If you were me, born where and when I was born, you would be saying exactly what I am saying, I would assume. 

You are not only the light that shines through, you are also the lightbulb. Dont be such an aggressive lightbulb in arguments, because that same light that allows you to express yourself, allows all of us, including those you deem dishonest and unenlightened.

 

 

You are so dishonest, We will do an exercise in honesty.

If you are not conscious....is there a life?

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are so dishonest, We will do an exercise in honesty.

If you are not conscious....is there a life?

What the actual... read my comment at least, I am not responding to this until you do and understand what I said

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are so dishonest, We will do an exercise in honesty.

If you are not conscious....is there a life?

Ok, I'll bite.

 

If im not conscious, there wont be any experience or a me to suffer/enjoy that nonexperience.

[Razard86]

30 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Ok, I'll bite.

 

If im not conscious, there wont be any experience or a me to suffer/enjoy that nonexperience.

And that is all that is being said. An experience is an appearance. When you wake up in the morning and open your eyes, the world APPEARS before you instantly. All your perceptions appear as well. But if we knock you unconscious, or you go into deep sleep, there is nothing. So if you don't dream or are knocked unconscious there is nothing....but if you dream or wake up there is something....how do you know when you supposedly woke up you aren't still actually dreaming?

Now if you don't entertain that possibility then you will never find out. I can't prove it to you because I can't enter your body and force you to investigate it. But I can at least get you to realize that you cannot separate being conscious with life/reality. You have to be conscious to be alive, and that means Consciousness= Life itself. 

The rest after that.....you have to find out for yourself. The only reason I engage with you at all is because I want you to admit that either you want to find out or you don't. But when you say it's not true I'll just bring up evidence of it being true because the evidence is all around you...if you care to look and investigate.

You have a budding interest otherwise you wouldn't be on here and responding to me, but until you are ready to take a deep dive you won't find out. Finding out what I am saying is like this....(except your body disappears).

^^^That right there is an example. Doctor Strange is seeing what psychedelics show you, that the Universe is a Mind that spawns all creation and anything you can imagine...it can do and more. He didn't realize it until it was shown to him. So if you actually investigate it...you will discover it.

BUT.....you don't have to because it can lead to PTSD, and temporary insanity, because the magnitude of this awakening is too much for most minds. Leo reportedly shit on the floor during his awakenings, and some of mine sent me to the psyche ward as reality crumbled around me and I wanted to "get my normal reality again." 

That shit is bonkers, it can appear however it wants to appear.

Edited April 15 by Razard86

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

And that is all that is being said. An experience is an appearance. When you wake up in the morning and open your eyes, the world APPEARS before you instantly. All your perceptions appear as well. But if we knock you unconscious, or you go into deep sleep, there is nothing. So if you don't dream or are knocked unconscious and there is nothing....but if you dream or wake up there is something....how do you know when you supposedly woke up you are still actually dreaming?

Now if you don't entertain that possibility then you will never find out. I can't prove it to you because I can't enter your body and force you to investigate it. But I can at least get you to realize that you cannot seperate being conscious with life/reality. You have to be conscious to be alive, and that means Consciousness= Life itself. 

The rest after that.....you have to find out for yourself. The only reason I engage with you at all is because I want you to admit that either you want to find out or you don't. But when you say it's not true I'll just bring up evidence of it being true because the evidence is all around you...if you care to look and investigate.

You have a budding interest otherwise you wouldn't be on here and responding to me, but until you are ready to take a deep dive you won't find out. Finding out what I am saying is like this....(except your body disappears).

 

Hol up, in another thread you said is possible to enter other people subjective experience hehe.

You are really preaching to a stick figure you have of me. If you read my comment again, not just skim, the one I asked you to reread, you will understand I am well aware of consciousness. 

Im here to tell you not to paint the entire canvas blank, just because thats the truth behind every painting. 

You are going way too radical with consciousness, saying it is equal to life, but the painting is just as important as the canvas. 

Im here to pull you out of the deep preacher hole trap. Not gonna happen if you just skim my comments and have alergic reactions rather than grasping what Im saying. 

Im saying Yes, you are the same consciousness always, since you were a child, as far back as you can remember, you are always just the same IAM, the rest is just different content.

Im saying this is the case for everyone, no matter what they say. Im also saying that you are also that growing evolving being, who was born in 1986.

Consciousness is timeless,  never changing presence, that evolving human being that is currently talking with me, is not timeless and never changing. You change all the time! You say different words all the time!

I guess thats why the highest gurus say, that if you have to speak the truth, you should remain silent.

[bebotalk]

On 28/09/2023 at 4:08 PM, KatiesKarma said:

Guys I tried Leo's path for three years and ended up in uninmaginable fear and suffering. Read my old posts but basically extreme loneliness, suicidality PSYCHOSIS where Satan tried to murder me constantly.

I rebelled very hard against Jesus. He still took me by my hand and lifted me up the sky. I am now very happy and very fulfilled.

 

God did not want me to post here. Maybe I can reach some broken hearts.

You can dm me and we can talk on instagram, I will give you my name there. I don't like chatting on this forum all that much.

 

Christianity is just one of many forms. 

There are some forms that consider itself superior to Christianity, such as Islam. 

[Dodo]

The fact is, @Razard86, you say you cant be in my body and do it for me, but You, as Consciousness, already are in my body, the same way you are in the Razard body. So what is that "me" you say cant get in my body? It must be part of your egoic identity talking to me.

Edited April 15 by Dodo

[Razard86]

22 minutes ago, Dodo said:

The fact is, @Razard86, you say you cant be in my body and do it for me, but You, as Consciousness, already are in my body, the same way you are in the Razard body. So what is that "me" you say cant get in my body? It must be part of your egoic identity talking to me.

Sigh.....here is a way to explain it. Consciousness is what makes up appearance. It is also what makes up what you call your senses, like smell, taste, sight, hearing, and touch. So Consciousness is the building block of all of existence, it is what appears, and what doesn't appear. You know the extreme of nonappearance as deep sleep, and what doesn't appear before the beginning of your life. 

From that perspective....we are the same because everything is made up of the same consciousness.

But as the human you are, you have your own functionality. Just like identical twins who are the same egg but is split down the middle are exactly identical but have their own functionality. Just like every cell in your body shares the same D.N.A. but has a different appearance and its own functionality.

So even though in our essence as Consciousness we are the same, we appear and function differently. This topic would eventually point to the holographic nature of reality, in which the part is the whole and the whole is the part and they are mutually intertwined and cannot be separated but that is a whole other topic.

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Sigh.....here is a way to explain it. Consciousness is what makes up appearance. It is also what makes up what you call your senses, like smell, taste, sight, hearing, and touch. So Consciousness is the building block of all of existence, it is what appears, and what doesn't appear. You know the extreme of nonappearance as deep sleep, and what doesn't appear before the beginning of your life. 

From that perspective....we are the same because everything is made up of the same consciousness.

But as the human you are, you have your own functionality. Just like identical twins who are the same egg but is split down the middle are exactly identical but have their own functionality. Just like every cell in your body shares the same D.N.A. but has a different appearance and its own functionality.

So even though in our essence as Consciousness we are the same, we appear and function differently. This topic would eventually point to the holographic nature of reality, in which the part is the whole and the whole is the part and they are mutually intertwined and cannot be separated but that is a whole other topic.

And therein lies the truth that you have no higher authority over the truth as does a drunk angry man at the bar who appears completely unenlightened.

So why all the preaching? I believe Christianity is a way to paint a good picture of life by conditioning masses into evolving into more righteous beings. 

There are other religions too, with different visions and different ways they want to evolve the masses. Don't put infinite truth in a finate contextual box of your own mind, because you think you know better than everyone else.

Someone disagreeing with you is doing so while still having the same building blocks of consciousness. If you were me, you would be saying what I'm saying, and if I were you I'd be saying what you're saying. It already is the case. There is no place for judgement, only helpful criticisms you would give your own self.

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, Dodo said:

And therein lies the truth that you have no higher authority over the truth as does a drunk angry man at the bar who appears completely unenlightened.

So why all the preaching? I believe Christianity is a way to paint a good picture of life by conditioning masses into evolving into more righteous beings. 

There are other religions too, with different visions and different ways they want to evolve the masses. Don't put infinite truth in a finate contextual box of your own mind, because you think you know better than everyone else.

Someone disagreeing with you is doing so while still having the same building blocks of consciousness. If you were me, you would be saying what I'm saying, and if I were you I'd be saying what you're saying. It already is the case. There is no place for judgement, only helpful criticisms you would give your own self.

Dodo you have an extremely dishonest mind. When did I say I ever had a higher authority over the truth? The truth= What is. Gravity does not care if I agree or disagree with it. The truth is what is. Consciousness doesn't care if I agree that I need it to have a life or not have a life. The Truth is what is. If I mistakenly say a curse word to a person they will still be offended if they find those words offensive whether it was intentional or not.

What is, is the highest authority, and that has always been the case. The secret to life is observe and admit what you see, Admit what you know, and admit what you don't know. Life is basically a lie detector of what you can admit. The more you admit, the more clearly you can see. The less you admit the less clearly you see. 

I have never said I have the authority of truth, I have stated I have seen the truth and I know what it is. Those are two different things. Once you see the truth, that reality is a dream, then anything said differently is pure fantasy and the funny thing is....for the truth to experience itself...fantasy must exist.

[thierry]

Spirituality can be a very explosif process and you have to be very cautious when you go about it, thinking deeply about what kinds of spirituality fit with your soul. I personally do not really like how Leo eventhough claim openmindedness put the presupposed frame that his work is above other kinds of work. 

 

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, thierry said:

Spirituality can be a very explosif process and you have to be very cautious when you go about it, thinking deeply about what kinds of spirituality fit with your soul. I personally do not really like how Leo eventhough claim openmindedness put the presupposed frame that his work is above other kinds of work. 

 

In a certain sense his work is a higher level as expanded states of Consciousness give you access to higher perspectives. You can really only understand it from that state. So from the perspective of seeing the big picture his work IS HIGHER as it is focused on a multiperspectival, multidimensional, parts make up the whole perspective. This involves interconnecting many seemingly disparate parts and fusing them into a web of discernment on a level few humans have the stomach to pursue much less understand because you have to throw away human bias which makes up your human identity.

Many people in Spirituality think like humans, they do not think like a Creator. To a Creator, humans dying is just part of the process of creation, to the humans it is proof of evil. Until you can abandon notions of Good v.s. Evil you cannot think from God's perspective or even understand God. So yes it's higher because its root is to learn what is happening, instead of judging what is happening.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Dodo you have an extremely dishonest mind. When did I say I ever had a higher authority over the truth? The truth= What is. Gravity does not care if I agree or disagree with it. The truth is what is. Consciousness doesn't care if I agree that I need it to have a life or not have a life. The Truth is what is. If I mistakenly say a curse word to a person they will still be offended if they find those words offensive whether it was intentional or not.

What is, is the highest authority, and that has always been the case. The secret to life is observe and admit what you see, Admit what you know, and admit what you don't know. Life is basically a lie detector of what you can admit. The more you admit, the more clearly you can see. The less you admit the less clearly you see. 

I have never said I have the authority of truth, I have stated I have seen the truth and I know what it is. Those are two different things. Once you see the truth, that reality is a dream, then anything said differently is pure fantasy and the funny thing is....for the truth to experience itself...fantasy must exist.

Dreams are fantasy. Consciousness is not a fantasy. You are conscious within your dream at night and that consciousness itself is not being dreamed. Let me wake you up from the belief that reality is a dream real quick.

The only reason I see you as someone who thinks they have authority over the truth is that you keep claiming some things that are not directly verifiable to be the truth. Like that reality is a dream... and you use the "Well if you dont see it you are just dishonest", to get away from the argument appearing like you've won it, regardless of what is said by the other. 

Whats the difference between what you're doing and what any religious fundamentalist is doing? They just have a different belief. You believe reality is a dream. Well, that is, by consensual agreement of humanity, not a verifiable fact. Whether it is or it isn't. What is verifiable is Consciousness. We can talk about that. 

Everyone feels personally threatened when you attack their core belief system. If its your core belief, that means its true for you. As a guy who has experienced crazy events like you have and ended up in psych ward, I still dont say that reality is a dream, why is that? 

Edited April 15 by Dodo

[Razard86]

13 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Dreams are fantasy. Consciousness is not a fantasy. You are conscious within your dream at night and that consciousness itself is not being dreamed. Let me wake you up from the belief that reality is a dream real quick.

The only reason I see you as someone who thinks they have authority over the truth is that you keep claiming some things that are not directly verifiable to be the truth. Like that reality is a dream... and you use the "Well if you dont see it you are just dishonest", to get away from the argument appearing like you've won it, regardless of what is said by the other. 

Whats the difference between what you're doing and what any religious fundamentalist is doing? They just have a different belief. You believe reality is a dream. Well, that is, by consensual agreement of humanity, not a verifiable fact. Whether it is or it isn't. What is verifiable is Consciousness. We can talk about that. 

Everyone feels personally threatened when you attack their core belief system. If its your core belief, that means its true for you. As a guy who has experienced crazy events like you have and ended up in psych ward, I still dont say that reality is a dream, why is that? 

Fantasy and not fantasy is subjective. Go study some people who have died (Near Death Experiencers) or actually take a psychedelic and find out for yourself. It's like I said, either you can open your mind and investigate or you can hold onto your beliefs. Also how is life not a fantasy....it has a beginning a middle and an end. No different than a story in a book. What is real, would be something that is eternal. A human life is temporary, hell a human life gets interrupted by dreams and deep sleep. So a human life is not as consistent, doesn't have much integrity to it. So how is a human life any different than fiction?

Beliefs are not knowledge they are just assumptions. Unless you have verified something, you don't actually know it.

 

Edited April 15 by Razard86

[Danioover9000]

@KatiesKarma

On 2023-09-28 at 4:08 PM, KatiesKarma said:

Guys I tried Leo's path for three years and ended up in uninmaginable fear and suffering. Read my old posts but basically extreme loneliness, suicidality PSYCHOSIS where Satan tried to murder me constantly.

I rebelled very hard against Jesus. He still took me by my hand and lifted me up the sky. I am now very happy and very fulfilled.

 

God did not want me to post here. Maybe I can reach some broken hearts.

You can dm me and we can talk on instagram, I will give you my name there. I don't like chatting on this forum all that much.

 

   I think you do have a point when most people from the atheist camp who are more stage orange/green outright deny the bible for ideological reasons, they do so due to them not wanting to read or try to understand the bible, and maybe some negative events within their religious family or religious community. On the other spectrum we do have more stage blue religious folks and more stage blue families that do read the bible a whole lot, again for ideological reasons and to fulfill their needs of belonging. It is true that both types can be dogmatic, an atheist in deep denial of religious truths while the religious folks are dogmatic towards non-believers. I think that we all need to be somewhere in the middle of this, and we all need to at least be reading and trying to understand the Holy Bible a bit, not all of it but some passages, and praying a bit. Psalms is actually a good place to start because at least reading the psalms is a bit uplifting, even new testament is a good start. 

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Fantasy and not fantasy is subjective. Go study some people who have died (Near Death Experiencers) or actually take a psychedelic and find out for yourself. It's like I said, either you can open your mind and investigate or you can hold onto your beliefs. Also how is life not a fantasy....it has a beginning a middle and an end. No different than a story in a book. What is real, would be something that is eternal. A human life is temporary, hell a human life gets interrupted by dreams and deep sleep. So a human life is not as consistent, doesn't have much integrity to it. So how is a human life any different than fiction?

Beliefs are not knowledge they are just assumptions. Unless you have verified something, you don't actually know it.

 

Look, I am probably one of the more honest open minds here, and thats exactly why I am challenging you. I have to read hearsay from others then, to get your supposed truth. Its not something that is readily available in the here and now always? Sign me out. I am here to investigate with an open mind, yes. I am not here to investigate someone else's experience of the Truth which is by definition here and now to investigate on your own, without any conditioning needed. 

Once you can get to investigate the present moment, why do you need to read near death experiences or take psychedelics? I am not stuck in belief of dogma. I am here defending what is directly verifiable, the truth now. And it is definitely NOT that reality is a dream. That's your notion. For me reality IS consciousness, and you also say that now and then, in between the "dream" bs.  You say consciousness is the building block and that consciousness is real and eternal, but you also say that there is something other than consciousness called dream, right? What's that...