The Brutal Nature of Love

[BuddhistLover]

In Leo Gura's video about the brutal nature of love he talks about a masculine form of love. He talks about not just a sweet and feminine form of love. A love that wants nothing other than for your life to be back on track sort of love. A love for getting things accomplished and pushing forward. Understanding that reality can be a brutal place, and knowing that you can make it through the odds. 

[Nthnl]

Loves goal is spiritual development. It will do so in many unique ways, agressively and gently the same.

[SeaMonster]

Sounds an awful lot like perseverance/tenacity, but then Leo loves to redefine words and use his own peculiar private lexicon.

(I guess if he uses words that actually have the correct dictionary meanings, he'll feel like the world is fucking him in the ass or something )

 

[Sir Oberon]

Greetings All, my first post. 

Love is a good beginning.  I like the notion I once heard of degrees of love.    In the first degree, we learn to love and respect our own journey/self, however difficult that might be.   As we come to terms with that we gain some wisdom and insight into our own being.  Then we open up to higher states of love, loving others because we can see love working in us and through us.  The highest state of love is universal love, unconditional love.  Not unlike the love we feel for a child perhaps, or the sufferings of humanity. 

At any level, love is hard work, and we can be at any stage of the process,  at any time, and yet such a blessing..   

OK, please excuse my rantings..

Edited October 3, 2023 by Sir Oberon

[sholomar]

 This reality is more than just a love simulator it's designed to simulate the entire range of experience including suffering.

The real question is for me is why are we here and do we have to come back in subsequent lives? When I look at the totality of human and other animal species evolution it seems like this planet has more suffering than it does good moments. Reality is how you perceive it though :-)

Is reality really about pursuing love or is that just the human nervous system talking or simply some philosophy being promoted? Plenty of people with Psychopathic Tendencies would tell you that their goal of life is not to spread love. The purpose of lower animal species in which we used to be one is not to spread love. Love is an evolutionary adaptation to stimuli in some respects. Just my opinion based on my narrow field of experience and knowledge. What I really need to do is take some DMT I think I've reached that point. There's only so far the intellectual Pursuit Of Truth can get you. Ultimately though I want to understand how this entire Matrix works I want to understand everything and then break free of it. To me life on this planet seems like a prison even with its inherent Beauty and goodness.

Edited October 4, 2023 by sholomar

[vibv]

On 28.9.2023 at 9:06 AM, BuddhistLover said:

In Leo Gura's video about the brutal nature of love he talks about a masculine form of love. He talks about not just a sweet and feminine form of love. A love that wants nothing other than for your life to be back on track sort of love. A love for getting things accomplished and pushing forward. Understanding that reality can be a brutal place, and knowing that you can make it through the odds. 

LOVE is everything. Including war, torture, rape, etc. There's nothing but LOVE.

The Wrath Of God is Love, too. A rage cutting through all falsehood, delusion and sanctimoniousness.

1 hour ago, sholomar said:

 This reality is more than just a love simulator it's designed to simulate the entire range of experience including suffering.

The real question is for me is why are we here and do we have to come back in subsequent lives? When I look at the totality of human and other animal species evolution it seems like this planet has more suffering than it does good moments. Reality is how you perceive it though :-)

Is reality really about pursuing love or is that just the human nervous system talking or simply some philosophy being promoted? Plenty of people with Psychopathic Tendencies would tell you that their goal of life is not to spread love. The purpose of lower animal species in which we used to be one is not to spread love. Love is an evolutionary adaptation to stimuli in some respects. Just my opinion based on my narrow field of experience and knowledge. What I really need to do is take some DMT I think I've reached that point. There's only so far the intellectual Pursuit Of Truth can get you. Ultimately though I want to understand how this entire Matrix works I want to understand everything and then break free of it. To me life on this planet seems like a prison even with its inherent Beauty and goodness.

LOVE is something completely different from the human emotion of love. LOVE is beyond good and evil.

LOVE equals GOODNESS. But it's a greater form of Goodness that has nothing to do with your human fantasies about what's good and what's bad.

To realize Absolute Goodness you have to be able to leave the perspective of your ego and consider everything from a holistic standpoint. It's not necessarily good for you as a finite form  – which most of the time means good in regards to your survival. But it's Good for the whole in the sense that it maximizes Love.

You want an example? Let's take war.

War leads to a lot of suffering, so you wouldn't call it good, except if you were the initiator of the war – that already shows how relative your notions of good and bad are.

But for the greater Goodness war and all the suffering that comes with it leads to the establishment of True Peace. True Peace is not the absence of the possibility of war. It is us understanding the suffering and consequences of war very deeply, which requires to fully live through it – and then coming together and consciously deciding that we don't want to continue that anymore.

The resulting experience of True Peace wouldn't be possible if the opposite - war - would just not exist. It can only be created by deeply and experientally understanding what it means to be fully at war – and then recognizing that it was false and it is not what we fundamentally are.

But first you have to go to war.

You can't skip that step if you want to really know what you truly are. That's what LOVE is about. It loves itself so deeply that it creates its exact opposite to be able to find out and understand what it is – even fully knowing what that entails.

Edited October 4, 2023 by vibv

[Sir Oberon]

2 hours ago, vibv said:

To realize Absolute Goodness you have to be able to leave the perspective of your ego and consider everything from a holistic standpoint. It's not necessarily good for you as a finite form  – which most of the time means good in regards to your survival. But it's Good for the whole in the sense that it maximizes Love.

The individual vs. the collective, self-preservation vs. laying down one's life?    enlightenment vs. ego drives?   I keep asking my high-functioning Autistic son, what is love?  He never cries, never seen him cry ever, he does laugh, however.... he never gives me an answer.    I love him and would die for him and every day I do.  Being there for the long haul type thing, love is more than happy feelings... he still lives with me.    Our community supports him, there is love in action!

2 hours ago, vibv said:

Quote

2 hours ago, vibv said:

 

 

 

[Sir Oberon]

Anyway, don't quite know how to navigate the quote bar, some interesting points from everyone. Love, it is complicated.  In the end, who benefits, I try to live with a loving heart, I benefit from having a loving heart, or so it seems to me.

 

What about the "Golden Rule" do unto others as you would have done to you.  In its simplicity it's good, but if you take a deep look at it, it's ridiculous..  Because my mind could be messed up.  What I would consider good may not be good for you. 

 Love is a response to the human condition.  Not always black and white.  Harden not your hearts, It makes sense to me, and will leave it at that..  peace.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Sir Oberon

[sholomar]

On 10/4/2023 at 5:30 AM, vibv said:

LOVE is everything. Including war, torture, rape, etc. There's nothing but LOVE.

The Wrath Of God is Love, too. A rage cutting through all falsehood, delusion and sanctimoniousness.

LOVE is something completely different from the human emotion of love. LOVE is beyond good and evil.

LOVE equals GOODNESS. But it's a greater form of Goodness that has nothing to do with your human fantasies about what's good and what's bad.

To realize Absolute Goodness you have to be able to leave the perspective of your ego and consider everything from a holistic standpoint. It's not necessarily good for you as a finite form  – which most of the time means good in regards to your survival. But it's Good for the whole in the sense that it maximizes Love.

You want an example? Let's take war.

War leads to a lot of suffering, so you wouldn't call it good, except if you were the initiator of the war – that already shows how relative your notions of good and bad are.

But for the greater Goodness war and all the suffering that comes with it leads to the establishment of True Peace. True Peace is not the absence of the possibility of war. It is us understanding the suffering and consequences of war very deeply, which requires to fully live through it – and then coming together and consciously deciding that we don't want to continue that anymore.

The resulting experience of True Peace wouldn't be possible if the opposite - war - would just not exist. It can only be created by deeply and experientally understanding what it means to be fully at war – and then recognizing that it was false and it is not what we fundamentally are.

But first you have to go to war.

You can't skip that step if you want to really know what you truly are. That's what LOVE is about. It loves itself so deeply that it creates its exact opposite to be able to find out and understand what it is – even fully knowing what that entails.

But it seems to me like socialist utopians are constantly trying to skip the path of pain and suffering. We have a society that these days coddles us and tells us that discomfort is bad so here is your safe space. It's the opposite of how you actually find your peace of mind and grow as a person which is through a certain level of suffering. It actually makes your nervous system worse off to be coddled like this. It tends to make you oversensitive, spoiled, and more easily triggered. I guess nobody wants to be the person who tells people they have to suffer. 

Good post I liked it! Would you say that we wouldn't be able to understand love if we weren't able to experience its opposite? That the main reason to Incarnate here is to experience these wide range of emotional states?

Edited October 5, 2023 by sholomar

[Sir Oberon]

4 hours ago, sholomar said:

But it seems to me like socialist utopians are constantly trying to skip the path of pain and suffering. We have a society that these days coddles us and tells us that discomfort is bad so here is your safe space. It's the opposite of how you actually find your peace of mind and grow as a person which is through a certain level of suffering. It actually makes your nervous system worse off to be coddled like this. It tends to make you oversensitive, spoiled, and more easily triggered. I guess nobody wants to be the person who tells people they have to suffer. 

Good post I liked it! Would you say that we wouldn't be able to understand love if we weren't able to experience its opposite? That the main reason to Incarnate here is to experience these wide range of emotional states?

Yes, exactly my view too.  Love is not always about feeling good, although that is nice too. I will refrain from flogging myself.