Enlightenment is a paradigm

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Saying it's all god doesn't say much, does it? It still leaves the question what is god open.

Saying that Enlightenment is the only Truth also doesn’t say much.

Quote

So time to get down to business.

Yep, the above statement(s) is also a bias I hold that must be let go of as well 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Yimpa

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Sure. Possibility is literally open-ended. But in order to talk about any topic at all, some grounding is needed.

That’s also an interesting perspective.

What grounding looks like to you, may not look like grounding to me.

A simple example would be someone requires to sit still and meditate for hours, while another may need to get into a boxing ring to feel extremely present.

It’s not a one-size-fits all, but then again it could also be... e.g. How one communicates on this forum may not translate well to how one communicates to their spouse, and vice-versa!

[vibv]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Yep, the above statement(s) is also a bias I hold that must be let go of as well 

You're already perfect.

Ahh.. this is so tricky. I don't mean that you shouldn't aspire to anything. But you're perfect anyway 

Edited September 29, 2023 by vibv

[Yimpa]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, it's not out of the mind, is about dissolving the structures. All the spiritual work is about that. The structures are a kind of crutches that we have to abandon in some point

Watch your internalized biases.

One of my most influential spiritual teachers was physically disabled with a slight limp. She could do more than I originally assumed once I expanded my mind. 

Be open to the possibility that what you currently assume to be true is not that it’s false, but that there’s more to reality.

Again, not about who is right or wrong!

It’s not that she has to get rid of the crutches to be free, it’s that I no longer saw disability in her or in me.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Yimpa

[vibv]

Realizing Love means realizing that only absolute Beauty exists. It's impossible to do anything wrong.

[UnbornTao]

17 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Saying that Enlightenment is the only Truth also doesn’t say much.

Didn't say that. I said that the Absolute is whatever's absolutely true, it is not a matter of only or many. But yeah, it is deliberate that I don't fill in the blanks about what "the absolute" is, primarily because I'm not conscious of it and even if I were, you'd tend to either believe it or dismiss it which are irrelevant, the only thing that matters here is direct, personal consciousness.

Quote

Yep, the above statement(s) is also a bias I hold that must be let go of as well 

Get you. That's all.

17 hours ago, Yimpa said:

That’s also an interesting perspective.

What grounding looks like to you, may not look like grounding to me.

A simple example would be someone requires to sit still and meditate for hours, while another may need to get into a boxing ring to feel extremely present.

It’s not a one-size-fits all, but then again it could also be... e.g. How one communicates on this forum may not translate well to how one communicates to their spouse, and vice-versa!

Grounding helps as a way to direct the mind. It's a way to create a common ground so that we can talk about some matter. When it comes to enlightenment, it doesn't really matter, except perhaps in order to not to further bog down the mind with useless stuff. It also keeps you honest and tied to your experience, so it helps in that.

These are still relative, which is okay -- language, communication, practices. The absolute, on the other hand, is unknown; better to toss everything you've got about it. It's up for grabs.

Edited September 30, 2023 by UnbornTao

[vibv]

@UnbornTao The Absolute is that which you can't be not.

[UnbornTao]

48 minutes ago, vibv said:

@UnbornTao The Absolute is that which you can't be not.

Maybe, it is whatever it is, go contemplate.

[Yimpa]

18 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Didn't say that. I said that the Absolute is whatever's absolutely true, it is not a matter of only or many. But yeah, it is deliberate that I don't fill in the blanks about what "the absolute" is, primarily because I'm not conscious of it and even if I were, you'd tend to either believe it or dismiss it which are irrelevant, the only thing that matters here is direct, personal consciousness.

Looks like we’re on the same page with that, just communicated in different ways 

 

 

[UnbornTao]

44 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Looks like we’re on the same page with that, just communicated in different ways 

 

 

The only page I'm on is in not presuming anything about this matter -- contemplating.

[SeaMonster]

On 9/28/2023 at 2:23 AM, vibv said:

I’m doing the work, I’m gonna awaken much more deeply in the future.

All I’m saying is that nobody else is done, either 

Don't worry about comparing yourself to where others are.

Believe me, when you're enlightened all that bullshit goes away anyway, and at worst you are frustrated at others' pace to catch up with you.

But you had excellent insights earlier in the thread, probably some of the most advanced of anyone here.  Run with those and drop the forum bullshit.

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, SeaMonster said:

at worst you are frustrated at others' pace to catch up with you.

I struggle with this, especially with certain family members. That’s why group-think is important to become aware of. Families are notoriously stuck in group-think, even if it appears that the members are independent from each other.

It’s the attachment that’s most problematic.

[Yimpa]

19 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

The only page I'm on is in not presuming anything about this matter -- contemplating.

What are your top tips on contemplation? I stumbled upon this, and looks like this would be one of them:

 

[vibv]

20 minutes ago, SeaMonster said:

Don't worry about comparing yourself to where others are.

Believe me, when you're enlightened all that bullshit goes away anyway, and at worst you are frustrated at others' pace to catch up with you.

But you had excellent insights earlier in the thread, probably some of the most advanced of anyone here.  Run with those and drop the forum bullshit.

If I was enlightened I wouldn't call myself enlightened.

[gettoefl]

22 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, it's not out of the mind, is about dissolving the structures. All the spiritual work is about that. The structures are a kind of crutches that we have to abandon in some point

yes deconstructing mind's constructions and that indeed is the only game in town ... good work man

deconstruct in order to construct and vice versa, that is all the absolute is up to

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, Yimpa said:

What are your top tips on contemplation? I stumbled upon this, and looks like this would be one of them:

 

Other than that, be present and open. Clarify the subject of your contemplation. Aim for an authentic experience now. As if you were "waiting", avoid the tendency to quickly fill up the space with answers, conclusions, etc. Basically want to know what's true. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by UnbornTao

[SeaMonster]

3 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I struggle with this, especially with certain family members. That’s why group-think is important to become aware of. Families are notoriously stuck in group-think, even if it appears that the members are independent from each other.

I don't have a problem with it as far as my parents.  I get my mom to meditate sometimes for her own benefit/relaxation but I don't expect them to care about spirituality beyond that -- it's just not going to happen and I've accepted it.

3 hours ago, vibv said:

If I was enlightened I wouldn't call myself enlightened.

No, if you were enlightened it wouldn't appear as anything ordinary to YOU, but you would also be aware where you are in comparison to others, and present yourself in whatever way was necessary to help them awaken.

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, SeaMonster said:

I get my mom to meditate sometimes for her own benefit/relaxation

The next step is to let her meditate on her own without you needing to tell her to do so.

[SeaMonster]

19 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The next step is to let her meditate on her own without you needing to tell her to do so.

That would be nice, but I usually have to remind her, because she's very busy and her personality is such that she sometimes neglects self-care.

[vibv]

38 minutes ago, SeaMonster said:

I don't have a problem with it as far as my parents.  I get my mom to meditate sometimes for her own benefit/relaxation but I don't expect them to care about spirituality beyond that -- it's just not going to happen and I've accepted it.

No, if you were enlightened it wouldn't appear as anything ordinary to YOU, but you would also be aware where you are in comparison to others, and present yourself in whatever way was necessary to help them awaken.

Whatever I say is the perfect way for everyone to awaken