Enlightenment is a paradigm

[gettoefl]

chat-gpt can explain better than me:

Quote

is it the case that allowing and resisting are actually non-suffering if no reactivity is involved?

ChatGPT

Allowing and resisting, in and of themselves, can be considered non-suffering if no reactivity is involved. In other words, when we allow or resist experiences without reacting with attachment, aversion, or ignorance, we are in a state of non-suffering. Here's how this works:

Allowing: Allowing experiences means accepting and being open to whatever is happening in the present moment without judgment or resistance. It is a form of non-attachment, where you acknowledge and observe experiences without trying to change or control them.

Resisting: Resisting experiences involves acknowledging that something is challenging or unpleasant but still maintaining equanimity and not reacting with aversion. It's a form of acceptance in the sense that you don't reject or deny what is occurring.

Non-Reactivity: Non-suffering occurs when allowing and resisting are accompanied by non-reactivity. Non-reactivity means not grasping onto pleasurable experiences, not pushing away unpleasant ones, and not becoming entangled in mental reactions or stories about those experiences.

When you can allow and resist experiences with non-reactivity, you remain in a state of equanimity and clarity. In this state, suffering is minimized or eliminated because you are not creating additional layers of mental turmoil through attachment, aversion, or ignorance.

Many contemplative practices aim to cultivate this capacity for non-reactive awareness, enabling individuals to be fully present with all aspects of life, whether pleasant or unpleasant, without suffering.

so resistance isn't suffering

resist all you please but don't care one way or another regarding the results of your resistance

you are doing what you think is good but whether your effort works out or not matters not

reactivity is the only suffering

reactivity means to have a dog in every fight

fight yes but leave the dogs at home

Edited September 28, 2023 by gettoefl

[vibv]

23 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

chat-gpt can explain better than me:

[...]

And as soon as that's established you are finally ready to PLAY.

[vibv]

What makes this all really so unbelievably juicy is as soon as you realize that every contradiction, even seemingly completely irreconcilable ones, will be resolved, you start to enjoy the tension more and more.

Because BOTH sides are always true at the same time. But you don't know yet HOW it will resolve or how it is even possible.

When you encounter an especially rich contradiction you may think: "How can that be?!? This contradiction seems so utterly unsolvable, it must be absolutely impossible that both can be true at the same time!!"

That's the most amazing suspense – not at all unlike the moment just before you reach the climax of an orgasm.

Edited September 28, 2023 by vibv

[UnbornTao]

15 hours ago, vibv said:

I certainly don’t know everything, I’m not nearly finished

There are just certain things I became conscious of that go against everything that’s taught

Ok then.

[vibv]

13 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Ok then.

What do you mean?

[Yimpa]

GOD is Infinite Paradigms.

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

GOD is Infinite Paradigms.

Bingo 

But there are more and less advanced ones.

[Yimpa]

@vibv And I’m imagining that you have a history and that you’re trying to become more conscious. And that’s also me! What the fuck….

[UnbornTao]

@Yimpa @vibv you guys should stop making up nonsense. Is it that hard to contemplate?

Everything you have about enlightenment is crap, seriously. Toss it. It just gets in the way.

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

@UnbornTao For the record, I was not talking about enlightenment! (but I guess now I am, lol)

[vibv]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Everything that you have about enlightenment is crap, seriously. Toss it. It just gets in the way.

How would you know? What exactly don’t you agree with?

[UnbornTao]

@vibv  @Yimpa barking up the wrong tree. What you conceive can't possibly be it, idea, belief, expectation is all fantasy and you don't need it. This matter is inconceivable. Mind will make stuff up about it regardless. Just get you. If it's absolute, the only thing to do is grasping what is.

The experience of grasping the nature of something is fundamentally different from the expression that arises out of that understanding. Hearsay is of no use when engaging in self-inquiry. You pretend that by convincing yourself with explanations, you now understand the matter while you also lack the consciousness that sourced the expression in the first place, if it was an authentic experience. 

In your experience, are you absolutely certain of who and what you are? Are you deeply conscious of that? Remember, be honest.

Bottom line: pretty much nobody knows so there's a shitload of contemplation to be done, not just about you, mind, life, other, and reality but also about relative aspects such as emotions, perception, experience, skill, the body, etc.

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao

[vibv]

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@vibv  @Yimpa barking up the wrong tree. What you conceive can't possibly be it, idea, belief, expectation is all fantasy and you don't need it. It is inconceivable. Mind will make shit up about it. Just get you. If it's absolute... grasp it.

Grasping it is different from the expression, theories, etc you make around it. You pretend that by convincing yourself with explanations you understand the matter, while you lack the direct consciousness that caused the expression -- if it was authentic. 

Be more honest. In your experience, are you absolutely certain of your nature and that of reality?

Bottom line: pretty much nobody knows so there's more contemplation to be done. 

My understanding of Reality is not final and always expanding. Never claimed otherwise.

Of course nobody knows, that's why we're having this discussion. Not even the so-called enlightened ones.

You can recognize your true nature but that doesn't give you omniscience. And if it did you return anyway and are a limited human again. This experience here is what God very explicitly chooses to have, it's no accident. This experience is way more important than staying where nothing ever happens.

I'm not saying that I understand everything, I'm just saying that enlightenment is something to be transcended, so that we can finally advance Evolution on this planet.

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Have you realized that omniscience is knowing nothing? The possible content of the mind is unlimited, so it cannot be known. It doesn't matter much or little. What we can understand is the essence of creation and the act of creation itself, you can be aware of it now. until where? I think completely. that would be omniscience. I'd say that if you recognize your true nature totally, you understand everything. But after it's veiled and you don't understand anymore and it's useless to try to remember and conceptualize

One word: Evolution.

Not-Knowing is NOT Omniscience. It only opens up the possibility to advance.

Evolution is not finished by recognizing your true nature.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, vibv said:

One word: Evolution.

Not-Knowing is NOT Omniscience. It only opens up the possibility to advance.

Evolution is not finished by recognizing your true nature.

Evolution means detach yourself of the mind that Knows, in my opinion. Think that when you were 3 years old you had already created a human brain from nothing. Do you want to evolve more than that? rather remember. and to do this, remove the veil of the human conceptual mind, and reconnect with you, with whoever is maintaining this structure of existence right now. If you fully recognize your true nature , you are omniscient. 

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Evolution means detach yourself of the mind that Knows, in my opinion. Think that when you were 3 years old you had already created a human brain from nothing. Do you want to evolve more than that? rather remember. and to do this, remove the veil of the human conceptual mind, and reconnect with you, with whoever is maintaining this structure of existence right now. If you fully recognize your true nature , you are omniscient. 

Our true nature IS = EVOLUTION.

I have grown tremendously since I was 3 years old, and I wouldn't want to return, that's completely backwards. There's no developed mind yet, true, but if that was the goal, why don't just stay there in the first place?

Not only that, but we have collectively grown and advanced in spectacular ways. Why not just stay in the stone age? I'm sure you were very connected with nature back then.

It's not about getting rid of the mind, it's about using and developing it to its fullest capacity. It's important to realize that you are not the mind, but that's only because it enables you to make even better use of it. Getting rid of the mind as if it was a bad thing is a complete and utter misunderstanding in buddhism.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

My understanding of Reality is not final and always expanding. Never claimed otherwise.

Of course nobody knows, that's why we're having this discussion. Not even the so-called enlightened ones.

You can recognize your true nature but that doesn't give you omniscience. And if it did you return anyway and are a limited human again. This experience here is what God very explicitly chooses to have, it's no accident. This experience is way more important than staying where nothing ever happens.

I'm not saying that I understand everything, I'm just saying that enlightenment is something to be transcended, so that we can finally advance Evolution on this planet.

Why bring up things such as evolution and omniscience when talking about one's nature?

Confabulating is not contemplating.

It's possible for you to become personally conscious of your nature. You only need you, everything else -- belief, concept, conclusion, knowledge, hearsay -- gets in the way. So dropping them leaves you with less crap added on top. What you've got of enlightenment is all fantasy. You can trust me on that, or not, I don't mind.

Advancing evolution is a completely different pursuit, awakening is not relative. Again, avoid jumping to conclusions, remain open, face the "wall" of uncertainty and stay there.

Listen, be honest. Be ruthlessly honest with yourself. Once that's done, be even more honest. It's actually OK to not be conscious of what one is. It's not a bad -- neither is it good, it's just simply the case. This is not meant to make you or anybody else wrong but to put you back on track on contemplating. I apply this advice to myself as well.

I'm starting to think people don't like their fantasies being destroyed.

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao

[vibv]

18 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Why bring up things such as evolution and omniscience when talking about one's nature?

Confabulating is not contemplating.

It's possible for you to become personally conscious of your nature. You only need you, everything else -- belief, concept, conclusion, knowledge, hearsay -- gets in the way. So dropping them leaves you with less crap added on top. What you've got of enlightenment is all fantasy. You can trust me on that, or not, I don't mind.

You don't know how I arrived there.

Quote

Advancing evolution is a completely different pursuit, awakening is not relative. Again, avoid jumping to conclusions, remain open, face the "wall" of uncertainty and stay there.

Listen, be honest. Be ruthlessly honest with yourself. Once that's done, be even more honest. It's actually OK to not be conscious of what one is. It's not a bad -- neither is it good, it's just simply the case. This is not meant to make you or anybody else wrong but to put you back on track on contemplating. I apply this advice to myself as well.

You have no idea how uncertain I am and how much I question myself.

Quote

I'm starting to think people don't like their fantasies being destroyed.

Of course not  But especially not if they confuse them with reality.

I aspire to stay open for my whole reality to be destroyed again and again. That's the whole point. That's how I came to this point and that's why I say it isn't final. But that doesn't mean it's wrong – that just means that it's sooo much better than that. About this I'm completely certain. Because I recognize that my nature is absolute LOVE and GOODNESS.

[Leo Gura]

Enlightenment is much deeper than a paradigm. It's a hallucination.

[UnbornTao]

@vibv Are you committed to ignorance or to whatever's true?

You can't lie your way to the truth. 

In any case, live however you want. Happy contemplation.

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao